[streetrodracer]

Yea, I was put off by the " Nickasil " exploded wire deposit cylinder liners as well - although they were fairly durable in dirt bikes they had no tolerance for dust or dirt inhalation and of course that happens so normally a shorter life and that's in a two stroke with oil constantly in the gas/injected into the cylinder for lubrication - plus no real re-build ability without somehow installing an iron cylinder liner into an over bored cylinder if enough wall material or expensive replacement of the entire cylinder with a new one - and since most will last thru the warranty period guess who'll pay for that !? Will it pass the 500 Hour Dusseldorf test ? 200,000 mile V Rod actual mileage test ? I doubt it. Maybe it's not designed to last look at all the repair $ H-D never made with the V Rod ! I'd like to read / hear about other 4 stroke engines that use these type of liners and their reliability - anyone got ant info ? I think the Chevy Vega was bare aluminum not coated but you see what they say about the rings ? Low tension so no need for a ring compression tool, that's to keep ring wear of the cylinder liner coating down from excessive ring tension and drag. Hope H-D has fully tested this design. Guess you could always overbore the cylinder .025" then under size the piston to get the iron liner in there so it's back down to an 1130cc engine ? 💩😫 Hey more members for 1130cc.com !!

 

[streetrodracer]

That's funnny Ceigenburger ! So looks like they confused two separate statements - and left something out -

1) "The oil pump is designed to pull vacuum in the crankcase, which can further reduce internal engine friction because"
Add - of the reduction of the crank and balancers etc. running thru an oil bath which absorbs power.

2) " lighter piston ring pressure is required" Add - because we don't want regular tension rings to wear the Nickesil coating off the aluminum cylinder and we're hoping to "minimize combustion blow-by.” Add - because with this system if there is significant blow by it might send oil pressure through the roof in a unfortunate circumstance of bootstrapping the oil pump.

Just trying to help navigate thru as you say marketing B/S created by non gear head type people for gear head type people. It's the least I can do -

[/QUOTE]

 

[streetrodracer]

At the end of the day ( or the decade ) the history of reliability for these new Revolution Max engines will be the true measure of their merit and the vindication of their somewhat doubtful at this point cylinder and piston ring engineering - you can get another 35 Hp out of a V Rod Revolution 1250 with not a lot of actual machining - yes it's still heavy but for the average guy ? With an ADV bike ? Probably not a useful end user of the " New Technology " to get it to this Hp level. Yes I like new technology, yes this is the follow up to our 1250cc Revolution engine that we've been talking about for 5 years but let me know if you think ANYONE can use 150 Hp off road OR 150 Hp on road with an ADV bike with ADV tires. Sorry, I don't see it. This is a perfect Revolution replacement engine, it belongs on a dedicated STREET bike, not an On/Off road compromise bike. I've jumped 250 Lb 400 cc 4 stroke bikes 85' + You will never, ever use 150 Hp off road, unless maybe you're running the Dakar Rally, and that's less than .0001% of the riders on the planet, maybe. Right engine, maybe, wrong bike for sure. I rest my case. Put it in a power cruiser H-D with iron cylinder liners and we'll talk.

 

[streetrodracer]

So that's my 2000th post, just noticed that - if I thought about it before hand I wouldn't have had a post as good as that for H-D management. It is what it is. At least they created the engine we've all been dreaming about, less the Nickisil liners. So put it in a bike deserving of it !!

 

[streetrodracer]

Yes Stefan_AL those Boxer engines last forever so that's a great example - thanks, hopefully H-D's coating quality is as good as BMW's - it will have to be if the engines going to rev to 9500 Rpm compared to the Boxer engine which is a longer stroke and more torque oriented - and not as much Rpm. Guess we'll see how well they do with it - all I can say from my off road experience is owners better keep the air filter clean because dust & dirt really destroys that coating and cylinder and you can't hone scratches out if it does. Better for street bikes with clean air being sucked in most of the time, I suspect the Pan America ADV bike will spend most of it's time on the road and lesser off road but a fewer # of owners may reverse that and ride more off road so they'll need to keep a well oiled air filter - sounds like it's got a cleanable one installed from the H-D factory so that's a good move on their part.

 

[streetrodracer]

jugheadny - yes I agree the engine may have been intended for use in other bikes that were cancelled but I believe this engine was designed primarily for the Pan America ADV bike from it's inception. I don't see 150Hp and 94 Ft/Lbs Torque in a M/C designed to go off road so yes, it should be in a primarily on road bike IMHO. That engine in a V Rod would pull 165 Mph + all day long guaranteed. That engine in a big heavy H-D Touring bike up against the Challenger ? ? I don't think so too short a stroke - Torque not low enough in the Rpm range, and Max Hp at an Rpm that's too high - the big twins do the job just fine, they just need to be water cooled. You don't want a road race style engine in a Touring bike, that's the definition of frustrating but maybe an ADV bike ridden aggressively - but It does need to be in a power cruiser for sure, period. So where's it at ? The perfect engine waiting for a motorcycle ? Only H-D could get this that F'kd up. Right engine wrong motorcycle. And I mean that in a supportive, humble I love H-D kinda way. I really do -

 

[streetrodracer]

My friend had a 1100 Honda Shadow, what a POS it couldn't keep up with my Triumph 900 Triple on the highway - and I had my wife on the back ! Yes, they'll run forever but if forever is that damn slow I'll take faster and blows up in two years - except my Triumph 900 Triple still runs perfect, after 24 years. This is the difference between depressing and inspiring - I wish I hadn't bought it To I'm keeping it forever - You can't easily measure the soul contained in a motorcycle, but I'm going to toss out the idea that the Triumphs and the V Rod ( and others ) have Soul in Spades, but some other brands ? NOT SO MUCH.

 

[streetrodracer]

Jay F - I'll be the first for the swap into a V Rod if H-D will donate one of the pre-production engines to me ( or a brand new engine off the assembly line if they got that up & running yet ) I'm waiting H-D ! They could be like GM selling crate engines all day long to V Rodders !

 

[streetrodracer]

Looks like it may come close to fitting with the 60 degree, rear mount etc. but just imagine all the B/S to get it to work - ECM, wiring, fuel system oil & cooling hoses, etc. Yea, a lot of work for sure - I think I'll stick with building a new Revo for myself got all the tools and parts just need head gaskets and H-D never gives engines to anyone anyway -😥 😅

 

[streetrodracer]

Yes I'm still working on the 1250 got pretty much all the parts & tools now just waiting for the right down time for the bike to do the job, maybe when our summer shows up in another month when it rains everyday and its 90 degrees, 90 % humidity here in FL ( Our winter for riding ), then I'll pull it down and apart. - it would be interesting to get a " Revolution Max " 1250 engine and see what it would take to get it to physically fit a V Rod, I can only imagine a lot of work plus the interfacing and integration of the ECU and electronics. Daunting task I'm sure. But the engine is the logical follow on to our original Revolution engine. Might be better to wait and see it H-D creates a new cruiser with it first, see how reliable it is. With the current economic outlook everything's going the wrong direction for the US and H-D so it might be a long wait - like maybe the next administration or beyond but that's just a guess. A guy might be able to get one from a crashed Pan America and see what fits that'd be fun ! Or just mod the PA frame to be a power cruiser that would be easier 😎

 

[streetrodracer]

yea much better all in Black - rather than orange with a WHITE ?? fairing ? I mean really ? What they ran outta Orange paint ? No time to paint the fairing ? Why not a Black fairing ? Faux Carbon Fiber ? But WHITE ? Crazy H-D Committee think -

 

[streetrodracer]

That's funny right there - I knew it was something familiar from a long, long time ago and then there it is - The Creamsicle. Great observation. The name has just gotta stick - " Oh you bought a new Creamsicle " or better yet " Oh you bought a new Creamcycle " Glad I didn't buy one, you did real good - just get the black one everyone I didn't even know it was available yet -