Has anyone ever seen this product by Terry Components. It is called a terminal velocity. It does the same thing as a Power Commander and others but it is automatic. I mean it self adjust by means of an o2 sensor. Sounds like a great idea. Can anyone give me any info. Thanks.
william gerland
http://www.cyclecustomizing.com/products/terminal_velocity_efi_management_system_9979.html
It says its just for twin cams though...
It says its just for twin cams though...
The pre-production unit was installed on Ketsugo's bike over a year ago and he seems to be happy with it. It's concept is solid and assuming you are close it's a good solution. The only drawbacks are the requirement to have some program flashed onto the ECM to get it closer to your configuration and the total price of the system.
If you are looking for a closed loop system then the Daytona Twin-Tec VRFI is a better choice IMHO.
If you are looking for a closed loop system then the Daytona Twin-Tec VRFI is a better choice IMHO.
Don't know where I read it or who told me about the limits but on the bottom of the first page of their site they hint at it.. I guess someone needs to contact them to verify its abilities..william gerland said:
http://www.terrycomp.com/tv.html
** Although this unit was designed to make tuning easy, and works on the majority of bikes on the road, there are a few modified bikes that are configured to the point where the air/fuel ratio is critically affected. In these cases you would need to address this issue either with a Screaming Eagle upgrade, or a Race Tuner first.
Terminal Velocity Ii - Fuel Management System
Just a few years ago there were more new Harley-Davidson motorcycles purchased with carburetor systems verses fuel-injection systems. Times have changed and it’s now the other way around. The one thing that has not changed is the Harley owners desire to personalize their motorcycle to look, sound and perform the way they anticipate. One of the most common changes performed to the motorcycle is their choice of exhaust and air induction systems. Some new Harley-Davidson owners, before taking delivery of their new motorcycle, will increase the motor size to a 95ci or a 103ci along with down loads to maintain correct factory fuel calibrations, keeping the motorcycle within the guide lines to retain the factory warranty.
When any performance upgrades are made to the motorcycle there will be a disturbance to the air fuel/ratio calibration, which was engineered into the factory ECU computer. Making the necessary corrections to the factory ECU computer is not as easy as changing the jets in a carburetor.
The reason automotive and now the motorcycle industry are advancing to fuel injection is to comply with the new E.P.A. regulations and emission controls that become more strict each year. The motorcycle industry understands that fuel injection is the most accurate way of controlling fuel delivery and producing a reduction in emission deposits.
Harley-Davidson, through the year 2005, along with most companies which manufacture fuel management systems, have chosen a (Open-Loop) system to control fuel delivery. This style of fuel control has pre-set fuel calibration tables in either after-market or factory ECU’s which are very limited to operational changes; it simply cannot adjust on its own. When any changes are made to the motor (exhaust system, air induction system or internal motor components) the factory calibration tables are no longer correct so the air fuel/ratio will be incorrect and possibly harmful to the motor.
This (Open-Loop) system could be corrected by re-writing new calibration tables to the factory ECU or by the method of installing an aftermarket product which doesn’t change the factory calibration, but changes the output of the factory calibration. This method of trying to create a perfect air fuel/ratio calibration table with or with out the use of a load-dyno and air fuel/analyzer is nothing more than a guess. The reason being is that the aftermarket product which is trying to create a perfect output air/fuel ratio will not be able to achieve it because they first need the factory calibration source code. The end result is that the aftermarket calibration will have an unstable operation and will continually need to be adjusted.
Harley-Davidson currently on their new 2006 Dyna Glide along with the entire automotive industry for more than 25 years has used (Closed-Loop) operational fuel control. This operation introduces an oxygen sensor (O2 sensor) into the exhaust stream so that it can monitor the oxygen content while you ride. With the sensor in place, the fuel delivery can be corrected to the factory calibration tables. This method will result in achieving the correct air fuel/ratio.
There are a few exhaust companies that understand the need to properly correct the air/fuel ratios when after market exhaust systems are being installed. Bubs Enterprises’ Dennis Manning (owner), the developer of the “True Dual Jug Hugger”, “Two Into One Performance System” and the manufacturer of the “Rinehart Exhaust System” is one. At their emissions dyno lab (Bubs Enterprises) have had the opportunity to test all the current fuel management systems that are available to correct the fuel delivery as an aftermarket fuel controller. If the air/fuel mixture is not calibrated correctly, the performance part will not perform up to its potential due to the fact that the fuel mixture could be to rich or too lean.
Based on the results from (Bubs Enterprises) emissions Dyno lab, and an extensive analysis the results are clear. Terry Components “Alpha-N” Closed Loop Fuel Management System was the system with merit. Because of this, Dennis Manning has decided that Bubs Enterprises would install an O2 sensor bung on all exhaust systems that he produces.
Terry Components “Terminal Velocity II™, Alpha-N Closed Loop Computer” constantly tunes your motorcycle as you ride. Our computer re-calibrates to over 500 times per second to adjust to any load you may frequently put on your motorcycle such as going up hills, a passenger or any additional weight you may introduce to your motorcycle that would change load conditions. The Terminal Velocity II™ will automatically compensate when any new component is added to your motorcycle. For example, exhaust and air induction systems, cams, big bore kits and performance heads.
The Terminal Velocity II™ doesn’t care! It reads the exhaust stream, analyzes the parts per million, delivers that information in milliseconds to the computer so it can determine how much fuel is necessary instantly. The same with changes in altitude. As the air becomes thinner, less air goes out the exhaust. The Terminal Velocity II™ recognizes less air and automatically reduces the amount of fuel delivered. There is no need to punish your bike any longer with long and expensive dyno time.
The Terminal Velocity II™, will automatically adjust to any component change, altitude and loads without turning a single wrench on your motorcycle. If you believe in the technology that Formula One Racing, Toyota Racing, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, General Motors, Ford or Chrysler and now Harley-Davidson, they all use “Closed Loop Systems”.
The only true “Closed Loop System” on the market today is Terry Components Terminal Velocity II™, full time fuel management system. It adds fuel when you need it and pulls it away when you don’t. It provides the best air/fuel mixture so your motorcycle runs as efficiently as it possibly can. A 20% decrease in fuel consumption, 15% to 20% increase in horsepower and torque. Seat of the pants increase in ride-ability. It works with Magneti-Marelli, Delphi and V-Rod along with many metrics motorcycles. It’s about time!
The Only Map You’re Ever Going To Need Is A Road Map!
IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS, WE'VE GOT ANSWERS - 605-642-5300
Ride Safe -
Faye
Just a few years ago there were more new Harley-Davidson motorcycles purchased with carburetor systems verses fuel-injection systems. Times have changed and it’s now the other way around. The one thing that has not changed is the Harley owners desire to personalize their motorcycle to look, sound and perform the way they anticipate. One of the most common changes performed to the motorcycle is their choice of exhaust and air induction systems. Some new Harley-Davidson owners, before taking delivery of their new motorcycle, will increase the motor size to a 95ci or a 103ci along with down loads to maintain correct factory fuel calibrations, keeping the motorcycle within the guide lines to retain the factory warranty.
When any performance upgrades are made to the motorcycle there will be a disturbance to the air fuel/ratio calibration, which was engineered into the factory ECU computer. Making the necessary corrections to the factory ECU computer is not as easy as changing the jets in a carburetor.
The reason automotive and now the motorcycle industry are advancing to fuel injection is to comply with the new E.P.A. regulations and emission controls that become more strict each year. The motorcycle industry understands that fuel injection is the most accurate way of controlling fuel delivery and producing a reduction in emission deposits.
Harley-Davidson, through the year 2005, along with most companies which manufacture fuel management systems, have chosen a (Open-Loop) system to control fuel delivery. This style of fuel control has pre-set fuel calibration tables in either after-market or factory ECU’s which are very limited to operational changes; it simply cannot adjust on its own. When any changes are made to the motor (exhaust system, air induction system or internal motor components) the factory calibration tables are no longer correct so the air fuel/ratio will be incorrect and possibly harmful to the motor.
This (Open-Loop) system could be corrected by re-writing new calibration tables to the factory ECU or by the method of installing an aftermarket product which doesn’t change the factory calibration, but changes the output of the factory calibration. This method of trying to create a perfect air fuel/ratio calibration table with or with out the use of a load-dyno and air fuel/analyzer is nothing more than a guess. The reason being is that the aftermarket product which is trying to create a perfect output air/fuel ratio will not be able to achieve it because they first need the factory calibration source code. The end result is that the aftermarket calibration will have an unstable operation and will continually need to be adjusted.
Harley-Davidson currently on their new 2006 Dyna Glide along with the entire automotive industry for more than 25 years has used (Closed-Loop) operational fuel control. This operation introduces an oxygen sensor (O2 sensor) into the exhaust stream so that it can monitor the oxygen content while you ride. With the sensor in place, the fuel delivery can be corrected to the factory calibration tables. This method will result in achieving the correct air fuel/ratio.
There are a few exhaust companies that understand the need to properly correct the air/fuel ratios when after market exhaust systems are being installed. Bubs Enterprises’ Dennis Manning (owner), the developer of the “True Dual Jug Hugger”, “Two Into One Performance System” and the manufacturer of the “Rinehart Exhaust System” is one. At their emissions dyno lab (Bubs Enterprises) have had the opportunity to test all the current fuel management systems that are available to correct the fuel delivery as an aftermarket fuel controller. If the air/fuel mixture is not calibrated correctly, the performance part will not perform up to its potential due to the fact that the fuel mixture could be to rich or too lean.
Based on the results from (Bubs Enterprises) emissions Dyno lab, and an extensive analysis the results are clear. Terry Components “Alpha-N” Closed Loop Fuel Management System was the system with merit. Because of this, Dennis Manning has decided that Bubs Enterprises would install an O2 sensor bung on all exhaust systems that he produces.
Terry Components “Terminal Velocity II™, Alpha-N Closed Loop Computer” constantly tunes your motorcycle as you ride. Our computer re-calibrates to over 500 times per second to adjust to any load you may frequently put on your motorcycle such as going up hills, a passenger or any additional weight you may introduce to your motorcycle that would change load conditions. The Terminal Velocity II™ will automatically compensate when any new component is added to your motorcycle. For example, exhaust and air induction systems, cams, big bore kits and performance heads.
The Terminal Velocity II™ doesn’t care! It reads the exhaust stream, analyzes the parts per million, delivers that information in milliseconds to the computer so it can determine how much fuel is necessary instantly. The same with changes in altitude. As the air becomes thinner, less air goes out the exhaust. The Terminal Velocity II™ recognizes less air and automatically reduces the amount of fuel delivered. There is no need to punish your bike any longer with long and expensive dyno time.
The Terminal Velocity II™, will automatically adjust to any component change, altitude and loads without turning a single wrench on your motorcycle. If you believe in the technology that Formula One Racing, Toyota Racing, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, General Motors, Ford or Chrysler and now Harley-Davidson, they all use “Closed Loop Systems”.
The only true “Closed Loop System” on the market today is Terry Components Terminal Velocity II™, full time fuel management system. It adds fuel when you need it and pulls it away when you don’t. It provides the best air/fuel mixture so your motorcycle runs as efficiently as it possibly can. A 20% decrease in fuel consumption, 15% to 20% increase in horsepower and torque. Seat of the pants increase in ride-ability. It works with Magneti-Marelli, Delphi and V-Rod along with many metrics motorcycles. It’s about time!
The Only Map You’re Ever Going To Need Is A Road Map!
IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS, WE'VE GOT ANSWERS - 605-642-5300
Ride Safe -
Faye
opcorn I always watch commercials with a bag-o-corn in hand.When does the main feature start.
fayej,
I am going to continue the discussion here for the benefit of everyone rather than phone you or email you..
The concern in this thread what not whether a closed loop system works or not, we already know it works (and by the way there is another closed loop system on the market from Daytona Twintec) the concern was more to do with the range of adjustment available to the Terminal Velocity box..
In other words if we were to take a stock V-Rod, throw in a big bore (lets say a mild one like a 1320cc), work the heads, install some cams, bore the throttle body and put on an performance exhaust then install the Terminal Velocity leaving the ECM with the stock map..
Would the Terminal Velocity have enough adjustment to get the bike to run at its full potential?
How does it handle front to rear trim?
Of course you would also still be relying on the timing settings of the original factory map on the ECM which could cause problems..
I am going to continue the discussion here for the benefit of everyone rather than phone you or email you..
The concern in this thread what not whether a closed loop system works or not, we already know it works (and by the way there is another closed loop system on the market from Daytona Twintec) the concern was more to do with the range of adjustment available to the Terminal Velocity box..
In other words if we were to take a stock V-Rod, throw in a big bore (lets say a mild one like a 1320cc), work the heads, install some cams, bore the throttle body and put on an performance exhaust then install the Terminal Velocity leaving the ECM with the stock map..
Would the Terminal Velocity have enough adjustment to get the bike to run at its full potential?
How does it handle front to rear trim?
Of course you would also still be relying on the timing settings of the original factory map on the ECM which could cause problems..
If you are going to spam the site at least make sure your information if accurate. :chair:fayej said:
In fact, the only TRUE "Closed Loop System" on the market today is the Daytona Twin Tec TCFI II and the VRFI. It's the only TRUE system because it REPLACES the Delphi ECM, not piggy backing onto it.
Over a year ago the prototype system for the Terry Components Terminal Velocity II was tested by one of our members. At that time it was determined that the base map needed to be "upgraded" to at least one of the Harley SE maps to provide enough headroom for the Terminal Velocity to work correctly. If that issue hasn't been resolved then there is serious doubt that it could handle a heavily modified Revolution motor without having a good base map (and the associated expense) loaded into the Delphi ECM BEFORE then Terminal Velocity unit is installed.
Also, the idea that the unit calculates AFR 500 times a second and can correct the mixture within interval is grossly misleading. As with all closed loop systems the AFR is sensed, a calibration factor is calculated and the NEXT ignition pulse is modified. The adjustment is done once every 4 revolutions, not 500 times a second. When the system is properly tuned it is simply monitoring the AFR and only kicks in a correction factor when needed by updating the BLM (Block Learn Multiplier) table.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in Closed Loop systems but I don't want people thinking that there's any real magic going on here. It's a standard closed loop piggyback system, not snake oil. Think of it as a closed loop Power Commander WITHOUT the ability to adjust timing. (BTW, adjusting the timing via a piggyback system of any flavor is an exercise in futility on a motor equipped with Delphi's Ion Sensor technology)
According to their site looks like they released Terminal Velocity 3 Would this be a better tuning solutions to go with than Power Commander?
http://terrycomp.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProdID=157
TV-3 Has Flat T.P.S. plug & Uses Factory 02 Sensors
TV-3 “Alpha N”
Closed Loop Fuel Management System
· Quick Connect Plugs for easy installation.
· Available for all ’08-'09 Throttle by Wire models
· Available for Harley Delphi, Magneti-Marelli ECU
· Works in conjunction with Factory “Closed-Loop” Systems and uses both factory 02-sensors.
· No manual adjusting “Tamper Proof” surface mount design.
· Maximizes performance and efficiency while decreasing emissions and fuel consumption.
· Replaces costly and punishing Dyno time.
· Automatically adjusts as you ride and compensates for changes in load conditions.
· Re-calibrates for specific modifications made to your bike such as pipes, air cleaner, etc.
· Increases horsepower and torque up to 20% for most bikes.
· Works in conjunction with both factory and race tuner downloads.
http://terrycomp.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProdID=157
TV-3 Has Flat T.P.S. plug & Uses Factory 02 Sensors
TV-3 “Alpha N”
Closed Loop Fuel Management System
· Quick Connect Plugs for easy installation.
· Available for all ’08-'09 Throttle by Wire models
· Available for Harley Delphi, Magneti-Marelli ECU
· Works in conjunction with Factory “Closed-Loop” Systems and uses both factory 02-sensors.
· No manual adjusting “Tamper Proof” surface mount design.
· Maximizes performance and efficiency while decreasing emissions and fuel consumption.
· Replaces costly and punishing Dyno time.
· Automatically adjusts as you ride and compensates for changes in load conditions.
· Re-calibrates for specific modifications made to your bike such as pipes, air cleaner, etc.
· Increases horsepower and torque up to 20% for most bikes.
· Works in conjunction with both factory and race tuner downloads.
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