Thanks for the heads up Dan, :notworth: I have a 05 B with the TH and Sert and it pops on decel like a mutha f*cker.. Now I just need to call Sewerat over to help me with the retune...

 

this is for a 08 thunderheader & pc3......got many tweaks and works well....

dan

 

Thats great to hear as the pc3 will do a sweet tune, and not feel any loss of power . Thanks RockerDan for giving more people the knowledge and cure to be riding a dialed in machine.I like my pc3 and sweet ride for sure.

 

A good DYNO TUNER will always be the best bet,however ive tried many so called "TUNED" maps,that seem decent but always had the horrid POPs and backfires...so In my case I think figuring out why the decel pops were so bad(thanks ktombs1) is something these dyno guys dont seem to be doing...maybe you need to test ride it to get the pops to happen more...all i know is it drove me nuts for months!....i probably did 2000 miles just in testing map after map tweaks around my house area!...lol

I couldnt be happier!!!...no more FLAMES out of my bike!!!....and finally no more "gunshot" pops from my bike...sometimes people would pull off the road cause they thought they had a blowout!...LOL....like my one riding bud always says,''dude your bike sounds like a cannon!''..lol

Dan

 

Hey Dan. I just uploaded the map to the bike and took it for a ride. It is not the map for my bike('08DX, TH, Amsoil air filter). It is popping and backfiring so I'm gonna go back to my old map but thanks for posting the map up here for everyone else to test it out on there bike.

 

Curt....

try the new map i posted as "final" on page 4...

Dan

 

It has been my experience with the pc3 that fuel needs to be added at 0% to get rid of decel pops. Are you sure that your throttle position is at 0. Most peoples pc3 are set at about 5% throttle which would have you using a different map on decel than you think you are.

 

oh yes...the first thing I do when mapping with pc3 is ZERO OUT TP.....

you are 100% correct

Dan

 

I'm learning so please bear with me....

with the PCIII there are 4 windows that you can open to change values in, correct? and one of them must be throttle position, just guessing....So in the different throttle positions you can change cells to add or subtract fuel?

with my tuning experiences when dealing with the TH exhaust you need to be able to have the fuel cut-in and cut-out and different RPM ranges. So the thought with the PCIII is it may need to be tweaked in different throttle positions since it doesn't have the abilities of other tuners....just trying to understand the PCIII a little more. I have almost null experience with them.

 

I'm learning so please bear with me....

with the PCIII there are 4 windows that you can open to change values in, correct? and one of them must be throttle position, just guessing....So in the different throttle positions you can change cells to add or subtract fuel?
with my tuning experiences when dealing with the TH exhaust you need to be able to have the fuel cut-in and cut-out and different RPM ranges. So the thought with the PCIII is it may need to be tweaked in different throttle positions since it doesn't have the abilities of other tuners....just trying to understand the PCIII a little more. I have almost null experience with them.

Hey Sharkey. Here is a snapshot of my PowerCommander open. This is actually the map that I just did today. I have no popping, no backfiring and I have a nice idle. It's kind of an uneven idle that I like the sound of.

 

I am having too much backfire issues under 4500 rpm so I just uploaded this map, Unfortunately I have to get ready for work soon so I guess I'll be testing this out on the way to work , I'll post an update tomorrow. Thanks Dan

 

try my 'final' map page 4...

Dan

 

I had my TH working without any decel popping when I had it installed but instead of shutting off all the fuel at zero throttle I added in the right area's and it worked. When I tried -99 in all the cells except for 1000rpm it would try to stall while stopping all the time. If you take your 5% throttle settings from 1000 to 6000 rpms and copy them into the zero throttle position at the same positions it should stop your decel popping without cutting all the fuel to your engine at zero throttle position.

 

Spaz...your theories are 100% correct....thanks!...

one thing i noticed with my TH is i needed to ADD even MORE fuel then what you suggest....and this was the ticket for me....totally opposite now of the 'MINUS' thoery i started with.

Dan

 

When adding fuel to get rid of the decel pop you can only go so far and you will increase your popping when you have to much fuel, the key is getting the right amount of fuel added at the right spots to get rid of the decel popping. You can also use -99 on any map to get rid of the popping but I didn't like it trying to stall all the time and didn't want dry cylinders on long decelleration.

 

When doing the -99 you have to start adding fuel at the 2500 or 2250 rpm area and below in order to avoid stalling. When I tried the matching of the 5% column it never worked. The best I ever had was when I added +55 from 2500-7000 rpm, but then maybe?your adding enough fuel to actually wash any oil away. On my airhead the general +25 worked, but that just made gunfires on my VROD.
The best way would be to put it on a dyno where you can monitor and adjust it when it happens.

 

When doing the -99 you have to start adding fuel at the 2500 or 2250 area in order to avoid stalling. When I tried the matching of the 5% column it never worked. The best I ever had was when I added +55 but then maybe?your adding enough fuel to actually wash any oil away. On my airhead the general +25 worked, but that just made gunfires on my VROD.
The best way would be to put it on a dyno where you can monitor and adjust it when it happens.

Did you have your zero throttle position set at zero?

 

Yes
The -99 was posed to Dan as a test to see if his gunshot would disappear. It did like I thought it would. I would agree that there should be a combination that would cure it by adding fuel. I have moved on to the SERT as I had issues in the 3000-4000 rpm cruise area that are 99% gone, and I am patiently waiting for my Tmax.

 

You are pretty much cutting out fuel at those decel areas. You can do the same exact thing with the SERT/SEPST and completely cure the decel pops, but then it feels like the bike is shutting off for a second when you put it at 0 throttle. Once again I've been leaning it out contrary to the "adding fuel" suggestions and seeing much better results and much better mileage. But leaning it out, and completely cutting the fuel out are 2 different things IMO.

I would say I'm 99% successful in removing my pops, and 100% successful in removing backfiring. The reversion pops are gone since I put the lolliwasher in. The only remaining pops are occasional ones when engine braking downhill due to overrun, and I've gotten most of them with timing.

I'll be curious to hear your continuing results though.

 

Rocerdan I agree that the timing table may be useless without the extra module. You are the first person I have seen say this. I don't know why some maps change timing when nobody has the ignition module. I would like to know for sure if the ignition table does anything with just the pc3. Why would dynojet sell a ignition module if the pc3 did fuel and ignition? I am glad you worked out your issues.

Mike

 

To the best of my knowledge the PC3 does timing. I mentioned to RockerDan that there is a dead spot when going from decel(fuel off) to throttle roll on he may be able to tweak that. The last SERT map that he posted made mine backfire LOUD as well, the one he posted that was a joint effort with Rick hardley did it but I managed to tune it out. There is something to be said about all this and I dont think its as much of an exhaust issue as it is a 08 1250 timing issue.:banghead:

 

I dont think its as much of an exhaust issue as it is a 08 1250 timing issue.:banghead:

This is what I've been saying all along. I've been having a lot of luck with timing, but I've been very conservative as I don't want to damage anything. MJW930 was the one who turned me on to this. I believe a lot of the pops come from an overrun condition where unburnt fuel escapes the cylinder due to a weak flame front, apparent on engine braking.

I'd love for someone like him to take a closer look at this, hell I'd even gather up a collection fund if he ever wanted to put a TH on his bike.

 

PCIII does timing on harleys. Sportbikes require ignition module

 

Took the bike to work using that map and I didn't had any backfires, only a small pop around 3000-3200 RPM and it was just once.
I did had a minor backfire issue when I was leaving work and it did studder a little when I took it 60-70mph on 1-2 gear maybe this was due to the bike not being warmed up all the way or I may need to add some fuel at higher rpms, Didn't had any backfires issues while cruising after the bike was warmed up
BTW I also reset the throttle position on PC III after uploading the map.

 

Dan,
What did you do with your SERT before adding the PC III. I thought once the SERT has been added, it was locked to the ECM it was hooked too.
Glad you got the TH working right.
Ed

 

This is good news, thanks for doing the legwork.

Now that you have decided to keep it you should probably get it Jet-Hot coated.....:stilpoke:

 

hey guys....

well,after alot more riding...i did find that cutting OFF the fuel at 0TP(-99) was much too extreme for day to day riding....even when i tapered it upward into idle areas it would stall when clutch pulled in on hard decel at speed....so after more tweaking with all these theories in mind,i richend things up in lower range at 0TP....i think i got a real nice combo now....still needs more testing but so far i like this....you pc3 gurus please take alook at this latest version...It works well for my modded "deconed" thunderheader....

now ive gone oppostie direction and added alot of fuel,more then even spaz suggested and voila!


here is the map....please take alook you pc3 guys and see what you think.
SEE POST #46 on page 4
http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1541666&postcount=46

Dan

 

Hey if I recall this was a much stronger pulling map than the one you are using. Only diff is you are running with the SERT base map which probably makes it richer. You could apply your newfound theories to this one as well. I would still go with the SERT.

Posted a SERT map for test purposes

 

i checked out this pc3 map.....its weird,as it opens differently in the pc3 software..you can see all the rpms up to 9grand in one window without scrolling down,this goes in increments of 500rpms....all the other maps ive been using go in rpms increments of 250rpms.....why is this map different?..they are both 'advanced maps'


also,both cyls are near same i see....i think with TH and stock headpipes all the maps ive seen all have many differences in cyls.

Dan

 

When in the PC3 software go in to tools and click on" Maximize Map Resolution". Its just the resolution its in when saved

 

Hey
I do have a couple richer maps for SERT I have been playing with I have so many different combos I lose track of whats what in between the times I get to ride. I will post some base SERT maps for 2005-2007 SE 1250 that I compared the timing with so you can see where I am coming from. You can see what they were setup for in the edit file comments tab.From my research on here I was lead to believe that the 2006 and 2007 1250 SE engines were the same config as ours in regards to cams, TB injectors etc that is why I messed with the timing I do not know why it is different except maybe for EPA and emissions. I do check my plugs periodically and have found no signs of detonation or excessive heat and the timing marks are within reason. (I trust/hope the anti-knock works)Its my engine and if I @#*! it up oh well theres always a first.:chair:

Oh and you do know that the timing tables available in the PC3 do work if thats your choice of tuners.

Kent

 

Oh
I do believe that SERT map I posted for Dan to test was a combo of my timing with the AFR and VE tables from the RockerDanRick-5 map with a few little tweaks.
I only had one decel backfire within the first minute while cold after that I only had minor cruise pops on a good 45-60 min ride.
( outside temps 30-31C)
Kent

 

Kent....

i ran the map i posted above all night last night....very nice overall!....hardly a pop ever and wow does it haul the mail!..

so,are you saying the pc3 timing works for us?....i thought we needed the ign module to make it work???....that is good news,i wonder how many TIMING POINTS we can advance safely on pc3 map?


dan

 

Current experiment

For test purposes only !
Use at your own Risk !

 

Hey...

I notice you havent changed alot here from the base map with timing tweak im using..

I do notice a change in FUEL delivery...the "cranking fuel" tables on your map are LOWER....what exactly does this do?...what are your theories with lowering these tables?


thanks
dan

 

Uploaded the updated map from Dan and its working pretty good so far, Few backfires at low rpm but runs fine after the bike warms up. Thanks guys :notworth:

 

try the new 'final' map above in post #56


Dan