running higher octane fuels will decrease the chance of detonation allowing you to use more timing, thusfore making more power...

however just putting it in a bike without changing anything in the tune.... the higher octane fuel will burn slower and cooler allowing the fuel to be burned fully and allowing you to make more hp.

 

http://www.dragtimes.com/race-gas-fuel.php

 

A higher octane such as 110 will lean out the bike. If you run this straight, you'll need to remap the fuel system to keep from burning a piston.

 

if the cam2's octane is alcohol boosted then it wont be the same as running 110 staight race fuel... i used to run c16 leaded all the time with no big issues

 

The pump says that the CAM2 is leaded fuel. So, is the conesesus that running a mixture that is about 30% to 50% CAM2 OK? I do not want to run too lean or cause any damage to my engine. At 7.24/Gal. I may think of it as an additive. Maybe even a 1/4 tank of this added to 3/4 regular 93 premium would be just as good.

 

leaded?

 

A higher octane such as 110 will lean out the bike. If you run this straight, you'll need to remap the fuel system to keep from burning a piston.

Are you sure about that. If the engine isn't set up for the slower burn, high octane fuel I would think it would be rich, dumping raw gas out the exhaust and eventually fouling the plugs.

 

Hey, if you click that link, then click on "compare" at the top, you get the following:

http://www.dragtimes.com/compare.php

Now enter "Harley-Davidson", "VRSC", and "2006"... you will get SmokenJoe's run in January. Cool! :thumb:

Schinde

 

So, is the conesesus that running a mixture that is about 30% to 50% CAM2 OK?

Are you interested in finding out what the "consensus" opinion is? Or, would you rather know what the scientific truth is?

Because the scientific truth is that, absent any other modifications to your engine to take advantage of the higher octane, you are wasting your money. 110 octane fuel has no higher energy content than regular gasoline. It cannot make any more horsepower by itself.

Unless you are running a highly modified engine on the dragstrip - just follow the manufacturer's recommendation. 93 (R+M/2) octane pump gas will do just fine.

 

Are you sure about that. If the engine isn't set up for the slower burn, high octane fuel I would think it would be rich, dumping raw gas out the exhaust and eventually fouling the plugs.

Yes, I'm sure. I run high octane fuel in several bikes and have been for years. It'll actually burn faster, causing a lean condition. Such is true for any alcohol based fuel also. If you run alcohol you need to increase the jetting by over 30% to compensate the a/f ratio. Run some high octane in one of your bikes and you'll see how white your exhaust will turn. You can pick up a few horsepower with racing fuels, generally because it allows you to burn more.

 

Yes, I'm sure. I run high octane fuel in several bikes and have been for years. It'll actually burn faster, causing a lean condition. Such is true for any alcohol based fuel also. If you run alcohol you need to increase the jetting by over 30% to compensate the a/f ratio. Run some high octane in one of your bikes and you'll see how white your exhaust will turn. You can pick up a few horsepower with racing fuels, generally because it allows you to burn more.

you can research it all day
http://www.bajajusa.com/High Octane.htm

Octane is NOT a measure of power but of the fuels’ resistance to ignition from heat. A higher-octane fuel, under identical combustion chamber conditions, will burn slower.

i stick by my original post, higher octane fuel DOES NOT lean out the mixture

 

Yes, I'm sure. I run high octane fuel in several bikes and have been for years. It'll actually burn faster, causing a lean condition. Such is true for any alcohol based fuel also. If you run alcohol you need to increase the jetting by over 30% to compensate the a/f ratio. Run some high octane in one of your bikes and you'll see how white your exhaust will turn. You can pick up a few horsepower with racing fuels, generally because it allows you to burn more.

I have to agree with VenomousSVT on this. Running higher octane than design requirements will foul plugs. The reason you need such large jets for alcohol is because the stoichiometric ratio for combustion is different. Every lb of gasoline consumes 14.64 lbs of air whereas every lb of methanol uses only 6.47 lbs of air. Or to put it another way, for a given quantity of air you need 2.263 times more methanol than you need gasoline. Ethanol isn't quite as inefficient, it's stoichiometric ratio is 9.00 but you still need about 60% more ethanol than gasoline to consume the same quantity of air. The reason alcohol is good for high compression is the slower burn and cooling effect of the large mass of fuel.

 

oo i love it when it gets all scientific up in here !

 

i believe it is the density of the fuel that will make it rich or lean, pump gas has a density of about .755, now try av gas which has an octane rating of about 110 but a density of .720 and it will be lean,so check out the specs of the fuel and if the density is the same you will be ok , i wonder how much of a gain you could make with the higher octane fuel and advancing the timing?

 

Research all you want, run an O2 sensor on the dyno and check your readings. I've seen the end of spark plugs melt off from running race fuel without mapping. I have never seen anything close to a fouled plug from upping octane. I'm just telling you my professional opinion. I tune with race fuel on several bikes. I use a dyno with AF metering. If you can tell by the seat of your pants your rich and lean conditions, your better than most. Try it without the map, call me when you need your engine rebuilt.

Good luck!

 

Research all you want, run an O2 sensor on the dyno and check your readings. I've seen the end of spark plugs melt off from running race fuel without mapping. I have never seen anything close to a fouled plug from upping octane. I'm just telling you my professional opinion. I tune with race fuel on several bikes. I use a dyno with AF metering. If you can tell by the seat of your pants your rich and lean conditions, your better than most. Try it without the map, call me when you need your engine rebuilt.

Good luck!

i am not trying to completely butt head with you just because we disagree on the subject.... scientifically what you are saying just isnt true. I am not doubting that you are seeing some crazy a/f changes running race gas, but I wouldnt accredit it to the octance change itself. Changing the octane on a motor that doesnt need it is just a waste of time for the most part. You wont see any real gains from doing so. However you can stap that thing on a dyno (with a wideband) and drop 5*-8* more timing in it and pick up 10 hp. But with the extra timing you will then be required to run the higher octane all the time or you will detonate...

on a high compression motor the reason you have to run a high octane fuel is because the very high cylinder pressure will easily cause predetonation (or detonation in lamemans terms). If you compress fuel at a high rate of speed in a motor it will ignite before the plug even fires it, thus for cause a massive case of preignition, sending the piston on a downward path before the crank has completely turned over. By running higher octane it is less volatile and will give you a more controlled burn. It is less likely to preignite due to the pressure in the cylinder, giving you a controlled environment inside your motor again.



again... i am not kicking you in the balls, or having any kind of heated argument. I am simply stating my experience in tuning high horsepower cars mixed with a little scientific fact.

 

No arguement from me. Let me know if anybody ever fouls plugs from too much octane. Maybe my years of tuning and my dyno figures are wrong. Hmmh?

 

No arguement from me. Let me know if anybody ever fouls plugs from too much octane. Maybe my years of tuning and my dyno figures are wrong. Hmmh?

i never said it would foul plugs.... not this guy


again, no one is calling you out about your experience in dyno tuning. I think that we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, I am not wanting this to turn out to be a big ordeal...

however we can both agree on one thing.... him running 110 octane fuel in his vrod is pretty pointless.:deal:

 

I agree with the scientific slower burn, probably allowing a more complete and efficient combustion. Thus causing a leaner condition? I'm not talking about timing changes, just a simple fuel add.
Everybody should use 110 octane! Maybe I could sell more then!!:angeldev:

 

Hi def, one of the reasons for the seemingly increased horsepower may be the cooler air. Cooler air is denser and may give your engine a small increase in horsepower even if it is for a short period. The increased octane may also have contributed to the feel of power. Increased octane shouldn't necessarily cause the engine to run leaner or fatter, The ECM uses MAP, the crank angle sensor, Inlet Air Temperature and all of the other usual parameters to determine how much fuel to inject into the cylinders, this shouldn't change simply because you are using more octane.