I just came across this Valkyrie writeup - thought, it's interesting. Any comments?
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
Car tire in the rear - interesting writeup
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marker4x4
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Lighten up on the guy. I remember him from a couple of Valk boards back in the day. He's got more saddle time than any 10 guys posting here.
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17,603 Posts
Does that mean we should all ride $1200 used Honda's?
I have more miles on my 03 V-Rod than most people,and I'm still gonna use motorcycle tires on it.
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Cool, I didn't suggest otherwise. But thanks for the input.
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Notice he doesn't run one on the front.
"Are you going to put one on the front?
No. The front tire's job is profile dependant. It could be done, but substantial modification to the rake and angle of the steering head would be needed."
So is the rear tires job NOT profile dependent, I don't think so
I think the main reason he is having good results on the rear is the land yacht weight of the bike makes the tire distort on the sidewall enough that it works OK.
On a relatively light weight bike I think it would be very ill handling. I'd have to use the same reasoning as I use when arguing with guys that say apehangers give them more control, I say, "Then that's why all the road racers use them right"
"Are you going to put one on the front?
No. The front tire's job is profile dependant. It could be done, but substantial modification to the rake and angle of the steering head would be needed."
So is the rear tires job NOT profile dependent, I don't think so
I think the main reason he is having good results on the rear is the land yacht weight of the bike makes the tire distort on the sidewall enough that it works OK.
On a relatively light weight bike I think it would be very ill handling. I'd have to use the same reasoning as I use when arguing with guys that say apehangers give them more control, I say, "Then that's why all the road racers use them right"
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Last bike I ran a car tire on was a CX500, they weigh less then ours and there was not a problem BUT the handling is different the steering is much heavier then with the rounded profile of a bike tire. When you do run darkside you do run typically much lower pressures then the what is stated on the sidewall of the tire because the weight on the tire is so much less then it was designed for. It really isn't a big deal to run a car tire on the back, some people like it some don't. IF someone does decide to try it then be forewarned to take it easy to get to know the handling before you try anything more then just riding through the neighborhood so to speak. Also unless you are a mileage hog and need a tire to last 50 thousand miles then I wouldn't recommend trying it.
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1,489 Posts
Didnt they run squared tires on WW1 and 2 bikes and had to jump over the bike to steer it hard? until they figured out how countersteering works and changed to a peaked tire...
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I'm running a 360mm on my home built chopper and have had no problems fact a lot of my friends were betting I could not get the chop to turn...wrong it did so quite easily and my bike is 12 feet long, and no I didn't mean I could stay up with my V-rod in the turns but I also have a friend that runs a 10" car tire on his bike and he almost has to ride it on the side lip of the tire to ride it straight and when he hits the turns he is acutally riding on the smooth walls and have seen him go down in heavy rain (no traction) in a tight turn. If you don't mind riding like that than more power to ya but if cost is a reason to use care tires then motorcycle tires than that is not a good enough reason...lots of good deals for tires but they are not free...
I ran a Perelli, (off a Spider, I think) back in the 70's, it was way wide, (maybe equal to a 200) for the day and a radial, It did not handle well over 90mph or so - at all. The bike would literally change lanes. Launches were even more fun, the bike would near leap off the ground. Some speculated that no radial on the front was the cause, I don't know.
They are inarguably a bloody scam, one that most of us have bought into!
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Coming from riding a Goldwing.........
Plenty of guys have gone over to the "Dark Side" and the most interesting post I've seen on the GW site was a video of the tire performance on a twisty road. Let me tell you that if you watched that video and you still want to run a squared off car tire then you've certainly got some bigger stones than I have. When you have that tire up on the corner of the squared part, the contact patch is not only minimal but appeared squirmy as if it couldn't decide where to settle in. It was a very weird video because after watching it for a while it was almost hard to believe that someone would put one of these tires on a motorcycle but believe me when I tell you that there are thousands of guys that will never run anything but car tires on their 1000 pound, 1800cc airbagged Goldwings even though there are numerous better handling motorcycle tires for the same exact model.
Respectfully,
Ed
Plenty of guys have gone over to the "Dark Side" and the most interesting post I've seen on the GW site was a video of the tire performance on a twisty road. Let me tell you that if you watched that video and you still want to run a squared off car tire then you've certainly got some bigger stones than I have. When you have that tire up on the corner of the squared part, the contact patch is not only minimal but appeared squirmy as if it couldn't decide where to settle in. It was a very weird video because after watching it for a while it was almost hard to believe that someone would put one of these tires on a motorcycle but believe me when I tell you that there are thousands of guys that will never run anything but car tires on their 1000 pound, 1800cc airbagged Goldwings even though there are numerous better handling motorcycle tires for the same exact model.
Respectfully,
Ed
Given the difference in cost, and longevity, how much do you really think it costs tire manufacturers to round, a squared off, tire? As far as how well they hold the road, they already speed rate tires, they could easily friction rate them.
I'm not planning on running car tires on my bikes, I'm merely making the point that tire companies, or perhaps the motorcycle retailers, have convinced us there is a value to paying more for a tire that doesn't last as long.
I'm not planning on running car tires on my bikes, I'm merely making the point that tire companies, or perhaps the motorcycle retailers, have convinced us there is a value to paying more for a tire that doesn't last as long.
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9,301 Posts
Just a couple common sense items that jump out to me when comparing car tires and bike tires.
1: car tires are usually rotated between 4 different locations on the vehicle. You can sort of (not exactly) assume that a car tire should last about 3-4 times longer than a bike tire.
2: most car tires are not Z speed rated, most bike tires are.
3: most car tires are not made for sticky high speed cornering, some are and the ones that are are expensive and don't last very long. Most bike tires are made for this.
4. If (when the way I drive) you break traction on a car the ass end will slide around, you counter steer and make it look like you did it on purpose and go on about your business acting cool. On a bike you crash.
There's more but I'm bloviating. Bottom line, especially with a high dollar luxury bike, is that it's silly to attempt to save a couple hundred bucks a year for something that's not designed for the task. In litigious states you may even be opening yourself up to liability by using a car tire on a bike.
1: car tires are usually rotated between 4 different locations on the vehicle. You can sort of (not exactly) assume that a car tire should last about 3-4 times longer than a bike tire.
2: most car tires are not Z speed rated, most bike tires are.
3: most car tires are not made for sticky high speed cornering, some are and the ones that are are expensive and don't last very long. Most bike tires are made for this.
4. If (when the way I drive) you break traction on a car the ass end will slide around, you counter steer and make it look like you did it on purpose and go on about your business acting cool. On a bike you crash.
There's more but I'm bloviating. Bottom line, especially with a high dollar luxury bike, is that it's silly to attempt to save a couple hundred bucks a year for something that's not designed for the task. In litigious states you may even be opening yourself up to liability by using a car tire on a bike.
1. Car tires are usually rotated between 4 different locations on the vehicle. Because they wear unevenly in the front.
2. You can sort of (not exactly) assume that a car tire should last about 3-4 times longer than a bike tire. ????????????
3. Most car tires are not Z speed rated, most bike tires are. Charge more for a higher Z rating!
4. Most car tires are not made for sticky high speed cornering, some are and the ones that are are expensive and don't last very long. Most bike tires are made for this. So a high performing car tire should be expected to last only 10,000 miles?
5. If (when the way I drive) you break traction on a ,car the ass end will slide around, you counter steer and make it look like you did it on purpose and go on about your business acting cool. On a bike you are more likely to crash. I agree.
There's more but I'm bloviating. Absolutely
Bottom line, especially with a high dollar luxury bike, is that it's silly to attempt to save a couple hundred bucks a year for something that's not designed for the task. Having to get your rear tire changed annually is a pain at $200 per year plus another $200, every year and a half, for the front tire,
In litigious states you may even be opening yourself up to liability by using a car tire on a bike. Could be
Regardless, just like the rest of you, I keep on mindlessly paying.
2. You can sort of (not exactly) assume that a car tire should last about 3-4 times longer than a bike tire. ????????????
3. Most car tires are not Z speed rated, most bike tires are. Charge more for a higher Z rating!
4. Most car tires are not made for sticky high speed cornering, some are and the ones that are are expensive and don't last very long. Most bike tires are made for this. So a high performing car tire should be expected to last only 10,000 miles?
5. If (when the way I drive) you break traction on a ,car the ass end will slide around, you counter steer and make it look like you did it on purpose and go on about your business acting cool. On a bike you are more likely to crash. I agree.
There's more but I'm bloviating. Absolutely
Bottom line, especially with a high dollar luxury bike, is that it's silly to attempt to save a couple hundred bucks a year for something that's not designed for the task. Having to get your rear tire changed annually is a pain at $200 per year plus another $200, every year and a half, for the front tire,
In litigious states you may even be opening yourself up to liability by using a car tire on a bike. Could be
Regardless, just like the rest of you, I keep on mindlessly paying.
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the only car tire ive ever whitnessed getting *wet* when driving was a drag slick or Z rated tires, and they definately dont make it 10k miles. The compound on out bike tires is completely different and Z rated car tires are steep in price and dont last more than 2 seasons of riding because these tires are sticky also and get *wet* when driven. I want my bike tires to stick theres only a square inch of contact and that better be good...
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And 0 warantee because they break down and and are ridden hard, totally different then the Camry tires that last 100k and you have 4 of them!
Well, there you have it; vrodders pay a 400% premium on tires for a bike that only has a 32% lean angle and is only marginally faster than a well built airhead. Don't get me wrong, your arguements are probably very fitting for a vmax, or the new diavel or maybe even the XR1200 *lol*
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