[THDude]

Stock '07 DX Second Ride and Factory comparison.

Installation date 080917
Installation mileage 16432
Firmware level 4.8

Miles with TMax = 557.80
Hours on TMax = 9:59:22 (from warranty log)
Average MPG = 43.61 (seems better but was on the rise before TMax)

I ran a 42 mile 1 hour loop Saturday with the HD ECM and the with TMax. Cruising speeds from 50, 60, 70, 80.
Ambient temp was 78 degrees. Received "Y" cable so I was able to run with V-Gauge lite both times. Installed comm cable to ECM connector.

Ran my regular 257 mile trip Sunday. Started out 64 degrees returned 75 degrees.

Bike runs much smoother with the TMax.
All my stuff works fine with the TMax.
As Sharkey posted its much easier to lumber along at low RPM. Doesn't feel like its going to stall out.

Ha... Fuel Gauge still broke.

HD run stop turn, Biketronics load equilized, with LEDs operate and cancel fine.
Scorpio i900 Alarm with all options work fine but not integrated with TSSM.


SURGING: (as we are calling it): Haven't noticed anything over 1550RPM since I ran Auto IAC the second time. Engine temp started at 74 degrees this time.

SPEED OFF: Playing the hit and miss game with the Speed Cal numbers. Speed Numbers match with factory ECM(V-Gauge, HD, VR2).

MISSING = IRRATIC SPEEDO NEEDLE = LAG/HESITATION: Nothing obvious with the HD ECM. There is a slight jitter at 75 MPH but I figure that is just vibration. Nothing on acceleration. If there is its not noticible because there seems to be more vibration with the HD ECM.
With the TMax the missing starts after 4800 RPM and stops before 5000 RPM. Not always on acceleration now. I can reproduce in any gear when in the RPM range. The speedo needle will bounce, and the V-gauge will change back and forth and drop the gear indicator back and forth. Most obvious when cruising at 75MPH because its right in the range. Won't cruise in this range until problem resolved.

Riding on to see if it disappears.


FYI temp observations with V-Gauge after the two test loops.
HD ECM temp 185, max temp 221 .... fans on at 217, fans off at 208
TMax temp 181, max temp 203 .... fans on at 219, fans off at 208

 

[parkus]

Does the TMax have a table for timing, or afr's that someone could post? It would be interesting to see if any of these values are changed from stock.

 

[TIM COLBY]

Surging update

400 miles since running the IAC auto function and it is still surging. Although it does smooth out after a red light cycle or by the time I get to the next light. Called James at tech support for Zippers on Friday and he will be looking at my map. Milage is still in the mid to upper thirtys.

 

[ToySldr]

I was running my TM today, so far I think I have 50 miles since I remapped it from the original map. At about 65 MPH at approximately 6000 RPM it seemed to surge a little bit, I was in either 2nd or 3rd gear. Overall it runs extremely smooth. I'm looking forward to new base maps being uploaded.

 

[TIM COLBY]

Today I went for a ride with Vrods of New England. Temp when I left was 43 at 6am for a 2 hour ride to Conn on the interstate at average of speed of 70mph. The bike ran great on the way down. Due to the fact that we were in for showers the rest of the day the ride was canceled. Afer several hours we called it a day and parted company, on the way home after making several stops (4) I noticed that the surging has stopped, although after the last stop my check engine light came on, from what I read in the manual I can check for diagnostic codes. Milage is still in the high thirtys.

 

[Sharkey]

when you can, plug in to the TM and let me know what code was thrown....thanks

happy trails - Sharkey

 

[TIM COLBY]

Check engine light did not come on this morning, or on the way home. Hooked up to the bike last evening and the code was FAULT 255+ SEC EGO FRONT AND REAR Cleared the codes and hoped for the best. Ride in this morning was 28 degrees. Took the 70 mile scenic home stopping several times, each time upon restart there was no surging, it idled smooth. I would have to assume that it has "AUTO TUNED" itself. I also received an updated version to my map from James at Zippers which I hope to download tommorow.
Milage on the Thundermax is 3200

 

[Sharkey]

good news on the surging....

don't forget to install the download I will send you in an e-mail tomarrow. Then you will have the finished product.

the EGO will always throw a fault code when checkiong codes unless the bike is running.... that is fine you have no worries there... the number is how many seconds since you opened the default page.

 

[spinedoc]

Tim how's the map running that Zippers looked at and sent back?

Check engine light did not come on this morning, or on the way home. Hooked up to the bike last evening and the code was FAULT 255+ SEC EGO FRONT AND REAR Cleared the codes and hoped for the best. Ride in this morning was 28 degrees. Took the 70 mile scenic home stopping several times, each time upon restart there was no surging, it idled smooth. I would have to assume that it has "AUTO TUNED" itself. I also received an updated version to my map from James at Zippers which I hope to download tommorow.
Milage on the Thundermax is 3200

 

[TIM COLBY]

Updated the firmware last week and installed the updated map from James. The problem I now have is with the smartlink program, I keep getting "program not responding send error report to microsoft" then I have to restart smartlink fortunatly it doesnt happen when I'm transfering data or running IAC auto, as far as I know I'm the only one getting this error message (I know Sharkey get a hold of Zippers) The first day riding to work when I shut the bike off the fan kicked on at 40 degrees, then ran for about 3 minutes and did not shut off, turned ign on, fan shut off, repeated this several times before it finnaly shut off, has not happened since. The other thing I've noticed is that when I roll off the throtle quickly it sounds like its not getting any gas then it catches and sounds normal and If I pull in the clutch and stop it surges at idle. It took three jabs at the starter before it caught this morning and Saturday morning. Seriously considering reloading the old map. I still need to prepare and send module data email to Zippers and create and send monitor log email. (I know Sharkey I need to put some miles on it). Will probably continue riding this map since the season is almost over for this year.
Big thanks to Sharkey for all his help and answering all my questions,

 

[Sharkey]

Try your old map and see if you keep getting booted out...

 

[TIM COLBY]

Old Map Is Back

Contacted James at Zippers yesterday and told him of the problems I was having with the smartlink and the new map,I was advised by product support that I needed to completely remove smartlink and reload it. Randy Emailed me the instructions on how to do this. Then I was transfered back to James who said that I need to run the new map a little longer and make some adjustments to it. Reloaded Smartlink when I got home then after a breif chat with Sharky decided that if the old map was working fine why fix it (if it aint broke). Discovered when reloading the old map that I am still getting booted out and have to restart smartlink, only happened twice, the first time locked up my laptop. The second time happened right after I loaded the new map. Bike is running a lot better the only thing I noticed this morning was when I rolled off the throttle then gave it gas I got a pop. Did not happen on the way home. Sitting in traffic on the way home I got a little bit of surging but it stopped after a couple of minutes. Did it again at the next light, then went away. Stopped after 15 miles then restarted no surging. The only other issue is that now when I start it in the morning I have to hit the starter 3 times before it catches, may have to make that adjustment to the cranking fuel setting. Just checked my setting I'm at 5 and it says this should be between 8-10. This has only started happening since the morning temps are consistently below 50. Supposed to have showers tomorrow morning I will make the adjustment tommorow night, and then Friday am its supposed to be in the 30s so I will know if it works then. Long ride on Saturday highs in the mid 50s. Milage today was 35mpg. 3500 miles on the Tmax. Recently talked with someone familiar with Vrods Thunderheaders and the Tmax and he said that there may allways be issues with the Thunderheader and EFI systems due to the fact that it was originally designed for carbed engines, and its general design. I dont care I love my Theader

 

[Sharkey]

Tim - Sounds like you should increase from 5 to 6 then try it for a hundred miles or so. only go in increments of one.....

Sounds like the person you spoke to about Thunderheaders doesn't own a TH does he.?? also the fuel injected models have been out since around 1996 and if you check you will see the TH has been improved upon since then....

anyway sounds like the issue you need to fix is the cold start cranking. Let me know how it goes.....

 

[spinedoc]

Tim I can certainly see how the TH would start to seem kind of untuneable, I would feel that way if the only one I owned was the one on my 1250. But I had a TH on my old 06D and it ran flawlessly, 2 years and never a pop, surge or anything negative at all.

I have a suspicion there is a timing issue or difference in the 1250s causing all these popping issues (I know this doesn't help you as you have a 1130). My decel pops have gone away completely with the TM, but I still have a weird pop occasionally with blipping as you stated, a rapid unwinding of the throttle, not necessarily to zero, and then either a steadying of the throttle, or acceleration and pop, just one usually. Weird, I'd love to run it by Zippers to see their thoughts on it, I know there is an entry in the manual about it and I forget but I think they mentioned to decrease the acel fuel.

I'm having the same issues with cold cranking, and new today I had one issue with warm cranking. I stopped the bike to hit the head at a local reservoir/park, when I got back on it took 3 cranks to get it going. But usually it fires right up except for cold. I have done the IAC auto in about 50 degree weather, first thing in the morning.

 

[Sharkey]

IMO - The cold cranking issue is due to the AFR vs engine temp needs adjusting...

I am going to bring it to the tech dept. attention tomarow and see if they can adress the issue with a cold start cure.....

 

[ktombs1]

Try adjusting the Cranking Fuel (5.6) plus the Initial Fuel Pulse(162).



Initial Fuel Pulse:
This setting will affect the way that the motorcycle starts when the engine is cold. When
the ignition is turned on, the ThunderMax ECM tells the injector to spray a defined
amount of fuel to prime the cylinders. The default setting is 199 for most maps. We
suggest small changes to find the ideal setting for quick starting. Typically when
properly tuned to the application, the engine will fire “immediately” and eliminate the
strain on your battery from excessive cranking.
The Initial Fuel Pulse will only pulse the injector once during each key cycle event. If
you lower the setting too much, the function will provide less of an aide in cold starting
the engine.

 

[ktombs1]

, a rapid unwinding of the throttle, not necessarily to zero, and then either a steadying of the throttle, or acceleration and pop,

This may help that area.

Decel Post Fuel Enrichment:
The Decel Post Fuel Enrichment feature is similar to an accelerator pump on a
carburetor. This enrichment feature smoothes the transition from an OFF to ON
throttle condition and makes it as seamless as possible. This seamless transition is
achieved by not allowing the manifold to enter a “dry” condition that can occur on long
periods of deceleration, which may cause a pause, or a lag, in throttle response once
the blade is opened. The Decel Post Fuel Enrichment has a range from 0 to 100, with
the default setting of 16.08.

 

[TIM COLBY]

Sounds like I am going to be busy tomorrow, if I get an answer from product support. Thanks for the suggestions

 

[spinedoc]

I'd be hesitant to give that a shot as I have no lag issues at all, the throttle is crisp and responsive even with blipping. It's just that occasional blip that gives me a pop, and it's not a big pop or anything. I'll try and minimally change it and see what happens.

I have my cranking up to I think 6.0, and I increased the initial fuel pulse as well. I'll see how those help, but I don't know where the line is where I will start to have too much fuel on starting.

Thanks Sharkey, also ask them about the pop with the blipping.

This may help that area.

Decel Post Fuel Enrichment:
The Decel Post Fuel Enrichment feature is similar to an accelerator pump on a
carburetor. This enrichment feature smoothes the transition from an OFF to ON
throttle condition and makes it as seamless as possible. This seamless transition is
achieved by not allowing the manifold to enter a “dry” condition that can occur on long
periods of deceleration, which may cause a pause, or a lag, in throttle response once
the blade is opened. The Decel Post Fuel Enrichment has a range from 0 to 100, with
the default setting of 16.08.

 

[Vinny]

.............., but I don't know where the line is where I will start to have too much fuel on starting......

It'll smell rich on startup for a few moments.When it does,back it off till it stops smelling.
Or it will pop thru the TB's,when you go to start it.