[SilverV]

Yes...we're on the same page. Next question....will it provide the same sound quality as holes in the chrome end of the muffler??? Hmmmmm. My hesitation surrounds the sound quality. Most have said the mod sounds great...a few have said, no. I know it won't sound like an air cooled 45 degree twin, so I'm still skeptical.

 

[Johnny VRod]

Yes...we're on the same page. Next question....will it provide the same sound quality as holes in the chrome end of the muffler??? Hmmmmm. My hesitation surrounds the sound quality. Most have said the mod sounds great...a few have said, no. I know it won't sound like an air cooled 45 degree twin, so I'm still skeptical.

Just by their design, they're going to sound different. What you'll end up with is a louder, deeper version of what you have now. There's two really cool things about this drilling approach:

1) You can dial in your desired sound level by the amount/size of holes you drill. Obviously you won't get V-Mod levels this route, but you'll have enough then to know if you want to go that route.

2) It's totally reversable (well, in theory). If you really hate what you've done, then you can track down some thin walled pipe (1/16" or so), cut a segment with an agle on one end just long enough to insert and cover those holes.

So now the question.... Which one of us is going first?!

:hidesbeh:

 

[SilverV]

Ha! Good question. I'd be more tempted if I had another set of stock pipes to try it on. I'm interested in achieving better quality of sound, more than quantity. Does that make sense? Not sure if a louder V-rod sound would sound good. I've heard water cooled japanese V-2 cruisers with open pipes and don't like the sound. Right now the bike sounds like a 115hp sewing machine. Not sure I want a louder sewing machine. Honestly, I'm leaning toward keeping it just as it is.

 

[Johnny VRod]

Me!!

I got home and didn't even change out of my work clothes. Before you knew it I had busted out my drill and bit set. Shaking her head, my GF asks me, "Are you serious, you're taking a drill to your bike?!?"

Some things I learned:

1) I have a new respect for Gynecologists
2) Drilling at an angle sucks. Eventually I learned to drive a punch through the metal first, then use it as a lever to expose a surface enough for bit to get a bite.
3) If you do this with your exhaust on the bike, do something to protect your wheel as your bit might bite hard all of a sudden and jerk out of your hand landing on it. :banghead:
4) Not all "A" exhausts are the same. I was very pleased to find that I didn't have that "bulb" resonator to deal with. This made things easier. I can only imagine what a pain in the a$$ it would have been otherwise. (see #1 above)
5) 5 holes is about all you're going to get in each going this route. I ended up with 4 @ 3/8" and one at 1/2" in each.

So how does it sound? Well quoting my GF, "very gruff" (as she sported a very surprised grin.) I think she liked it more than she wants to admit.

Me? Let's just say that after my little test drive, I can't get this $hit eating grin off my face. Now it's starting to sound like a Harley...

In the end it was a fairly easy mod with great results.

 

[SilverV]

You da man! Seems you're pretty happy with the sound...and you have the benefit of no visible holes to be seen from behind. Nice. How loud is it? On a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being stock, 10 being mind-numbing drone. Are you getting that low pitch rumble that others with the 8 hole mod are reporting? And are you hearing any popping on decel? Running smoothly throughout the rev range with no fueler? You got me thinking.

 

[shinobi]

I did it on my AW. 8 holes @ 3/8" each. I really enjoyed hearing the difference in the exhaust note with every 1/16" I added to the diameter until I found my sweet spot. This thing has a sweet rumble to it now!!! Very happy.

Confirmed: Drilling on an angle on the slash cut sucks ass. Much more difficult than I anticipated, but the hole alignment turned out pretty damn good if I do say so myself.

Time to enjoy..!!!

 

[SilverV]

Couldn't stand it any more and took out the drill this morning. Went in through the baffle as well...nothing to see from behind the bike, unless you bend down and look up inside the opening. I did 4 7/16 holes across the top of each one. I had no problem...took about 10 minutes max. Easy to drill into and I didn't find the need to drill on a sharp angle. I wonder if you guys drilled further up in the baffle than I did.

But, after a 2 hour ride....I decided that I don't like it. I couldn't help feeling the bike was a bit less responsive (probably in my head) and the sound quality is not what I wanted. I've always had a barely detectable stumble while cruising at about 3200 rpms (stealer said that's normal on stock bikes), but it seemed more noticeable with the mod.

I've pulled the mufflers off and am having the holes welded back up. Will pick them up in about an hour. Back to stock for me. Guess I'm the oddball in the bunch.

 

[Johnny VRod]

Important Update Concerning O2 Sensors!!

Everyone,

After SilverV's response and my own experiences today, I had to do some resarch and came across something that is a VERY IMPORTANT caveat to what I stated in posts #6, #8 and #12 of this thread.

While everything I stated in those posts is true, those statements were made with an assumption that all V-Rods were equipped with enging management systems that employ Oxygen (02) sensors and are, therefore, able to compensage for fluctuating rich or lean conditions. Since the mid 90s, just about every Electronic Fuel Injection system I've seen has the ability to compensate for barometric pressure fluctuations and altitude by means of two main sensor inputs to the ECU:

1) MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) or Ambient Air Temperature Sensor: These provide the imput to the ECM needed to gauge how much ambient air is available.

2) Oxygen Sensor: By sensing the current 02 levels in the exhaust, the ECM can determine whether to enrich or lean out the current Air/Fuel mixture.

When I started looing to by a V-Rod, I was looking at the new '08 models. At that time I had a pretty in depth conversation with the sales guy about the bike's advance engine management system. I distinctly remember squatting down and noticing the 02 sensors when I was checking out the engine.

So, in my mind... 1) EFI = 02 sensors for engine management. 2) All V-Rods have EFI to therefore all V-Rods have 02 sensors. Especially since it has the Ambient Air Temperature sensor in the airbox.

I WAS WRONG!!

After drilling my exhaust last night, I was so caught up in this beautiful new sound that I didn't really pay attention to the performance. I mean, I didn't really crank the trottle open because by the time I got to go out for a drive, it was already pretty late. But today after reading SilverV's post, I went for another ride and I did notice a difference. It wasn't major, but it wasn't as responsive and this bothered me. So as I went over everything in my mind Twice. While doing so, I just so happened to squat down and notice... THERE ARE NO FRIGGIN' 02 SENSORS ON MY BIKE!!

WTF?!?

So I pulled out my Clymer manual for '02 - '07 bikes, and there's no mention of 02 sensors anywhere (that I could find). They're not in the exhaust diagram, nothing.

Now things are starting to make sense. In one of my earlier posts I made mention of avoiding stupid detail. Well, one of the engine performance details is a principle called "Double Loading". I'll explain it in a minute, but understand that the advent of "feedback" (02and MAP/Air Temp sensor driven) EFI systems made the effects of "double loading" all but extinct. However, any EFI system that cannot read the exhaust content and adjust the A/F mix accordingly is susceptible to the double-loading effect.

Double Loading: One of the main reasons that exhaust valves burn is because the engine is burning lean. Normal engines will tolerate lean burning for a little bit, but not for sustained periods of time. One of the reasons why an engine is burning lean (aside from an improperly adjusted carburetor or non-compensating mechanical or electric Fuel Injection System) is that a reduction in exhaust backpressure is causing air to be drawn into the combustion chamber more efficiently than before. Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion/Non-compensating Injection assumed and factored in an effect of backpressure that causes air to bounce and flow backwards through the carburetor when the intake valve closes, right after the air already got loaded down with fuel. This causes the air to receive a partial second load of fuel. Since this was an inherient property of any engine, it was asssumed and factored into the tuning of most vehicles. Once these vehicles received performance mods that reduced backpressure, they no longer had that double-loading effect, and then tended run lean making it possible under certain conditions to burn valves. This, incidentally, also provides a basis for the "torque increase" seen if backpressure is maintained. As the fuel/air mixture becomes leaner, the resultant combustion will produce progressively less and less of the force needed to produce torque.

Are you still with me?

The bottom line is, I have to go and update my previous posts with this caveat. If your bike does not have 02 sensors and you modify your stock exhaust, you DO run the risk of running excessively lean. Under certain conditions, this could (and I'm stressing could) lead to burnt valves.

HOWEVER other factors are involved!

1) Your altitude. High altitudes aren't as at risk as lower altitudes like me here in FL
2) Mods to your intake, like running topless and/or a K&N filter.
3) Ambient heat. The hotter it is outside, the harder it is for your waterhead to dump engine heat
4) How you're driving it. Cruising vs. multiple, long, high RPM runs under lots of load.

I am at low altitude. It's freakin' hot here. And, up to today, I was running topless with a K&N. I put the stock air filter back in, and replaced the airbox top. Already, she's running about the same as before the exhaust mod when I was running topless.

Well, unlike SilverV the holes I drilled arent' something I can weld shut. And, frankly I don't want to. I rather enjoy her new bark. But, I want to return to running topless and with my K&N which means now I must go with a tuner box to do so. This wouldn't be the case if I had 02 sensors and a system that could compensate accordingly, but I don't

I can't figure out if I'm more pissed off at myself for missing the lack of 02 sensors on my bike, or at HD for rolling a non-compensating EFI system out into production.

I'm sorry for any confusion caused my my wrong assumptions. I'll take any flaming like a man....:spank::lamer::chair:

Time for another beer.

Johnny V

 

[SilverV]

Ok...at least I'm not crazy. The bikes performance seemed the slightest bit more sluggish to me, in addition to more pronounced stumble in the low 3k range. I'm amazed that no one has posted this same result. The "drilling" thread goes back to 05 or 06 I believe with many many people praising the mod (sans fueler). Perhaps I have a more sensitive "seat-of-the-pants" than others?

JV...another question for you. When I talked with Gil (Gil's box guy), he suggested that his box with a "stock" map setting would still be beneficial over the factory setup. Suggested it would improve driveablility across the board. His piggy-back fueler is about $220. Not as flexible as a SERT, etc., but I have no intention of modding it more anyway. What are your thoughts? Worth the money, or a waste?

 

[AJAugust]

I've been following this thread with great interest and I want to thank the principals for their input. All this stuff is very worthwhile knowing.
So, Johnny V, let me keep this straight...
If your bike has O2 sensors, there is really no need for a fuel management system if there are intake and exhaust mods to take place, right? But, if the bike runs lean because it was set up at the factory that way, wouldn't a fuel management system be worthwhile.
The reason I'm bringing this up is that when I had my previous R (see my signature), with no real guidance other that gut feeling, I installed a PCIII on a totally stock bike, and used the stock map. To my total amazement, that cured most of the stumbles, coughs, and hick-ups the bike would go through (my current R is no different). The entire character of the bike changed and it became a far more "ridable" bike.
Does that make sense?
I do not believe my R has O2 sensors. I will have to check to confirm.
My question is, what exactly did the PCIII do or accomplish to make the bike run so much better?
Also, if I decide to keep the bike stock, with the exception of drilling my exhaust, are there other option to consider that would accomplish the same thing the PCIII did with a stock map?
Any continued input and response here is really feeding the masses here...
Thanks,

 

[shinobi]

Well,

I did about 100 miles with the 8 3/8" drilled holes on each pipe. I have to tell you that I should have taken her out for one last ride to stop and "feel" the bikes performance before I drilled the holes, so I could really feel if there was any performance change. With my luck, there is absolutely no bogging down or hick-ups in any part of the low, mid, and high range of the engine. Acceleration is smooth all the way through. My guess is that the two O2 sensors in my 08 model are doing there job just fine and compensated for the increased flow.

I"m driving the VRSCAWA 08 by the way.

I have to say though, with respect to the "new" sound I've achieved, I think I should have really asked myself what it was I was actually looking for. That tight racing bike low key rumble the stock setup offered is now gone. And a throatier rumble is now in its place.
I'd recommend you take your bike out at least around the block with every 1/16" that you increase the diameter of the holes just in case you get too large and completely lose the smooth sound the stock set up was intended to have. I would try to find that sweet spot, that compliments both sounds. Had I taken my own advise, I probably would have stopped at 1/4" diameter holes.

In the end, I can at least be heard around traffic so cagers will be able to hear me coming. If you want crazy loud, then aftermarket Bub7, cfr, etc etc is the way to go.

 

[shinobi]

Decel popping - how urgent to remedy?

The above thread is found under the v-rod EFI specific thread.

The dude talks about popping under deceleration, regardless of gear or down shifting. He's done considerably more work with 2-1 rinehart, topless and PCIII I believe.

The claim is that he is running lean.

If I'm not mistaken, I'm getting the same decel popping that he describes, but I don't know how bad it is compared to his. All I did was drill the exhaust with the 8 holes per. Now I'm wondering if I'm running too lean with these holes that I've added to my exhaust, and whether my O2 sensors are doing what they're supposed to and regulate everything.

Have I just walked down the path of having to get a PCIII and get my bike dynoed just to be safe? Or should I have just spent the money and purchased the BUB 2-1 I originally wanted plus all the goodies to tune it right, rather than the poor mans route I have taken?? No offense..

 

[SilverV]

I was fortunate that for $20 I could have my holes welded up since they were inside the baffle near the opening. The bike is back to normal and I have am a happy camper. I don't have an answer regarding your decel popping.

One option for you might be to have a look at part # 65030-02 (muffler end-cap kit). It rivets over the exhaust outlet and should cover up the holes you made. I'm not sure how tight it fits, perhaps others can chime in. If the cover doesn't fit tight enough to block exhaust escaping, perhaps you could cut a piece of tin to act as a gasket before mounting the end-cap cover.

 

[Johnny VRod]

JV...another question for you. When I talked with Gil (Gil's box guy), he suggested that his box with a "stock" map setting would still be beneficial over the factory setup. Suggested it would improve driveablility across the board. His piggy-back fueler is about $220. Not as flexible as a SERT, etc., but I have no intention of modding it more anyway. What are your thoughts? Worth the money, or a waste?

Well, from personal experience I know that many times I've gone into something thinking I woun't want to do any more with it than I initially intended. While I'm just starting my research on the aftermarket fueler products, I will say that if I'm going to pay that much for limited functionality, I'll be better off paying a few more $$ for more function now than looking at a different fueler with more function later. Just my $0.02 on that.

I've been following this thread with great interest and I want to thank the principals for their input. All this stuff is very worthwhile knowing.
So, Johnny V, let me keep this straight...
If your bike has O2 sensors, there is really no need for a fuel management system if there are intake and exhaust mods to take place, right? But, if the bike runs lean because it was set up at the factory that way, wouldn't a fuel management system be worthwhile.
The reason I'm bringing this up is that when I had my previous R (see my signature), with no real guidance other that gut feeling, I installed a PCIII on a totally stock bike, and used the stock map. To my total amazement, that cured most of the stumbles, coughs, and hick-ups the bike would go through (my current R is no different). The entire character of the bike changed and it became a far more "ridable" bike.
Does that make sense?
I do not believe my R has O2 sensors. I will have to check to confirm.
My question is, what exactly did the PCIII do or accomplish to make the bike run so much better?
Also, if I decide to keep the bike stock, with the exception of drilling my exhaust, are there other option to consider that would accomplish the same thing the PCIII did with a stock map?
Any continued input and response here is really feeding the masses here...
Thanks,

Okay, since both of you bring up the question of a an "afermarket stock map" (which sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not), let me explain what that means.

If you're familiar with carburetors, you'll know the term "rejetting" when it comes to performance. Jet size in the carb determines the overall flow rate of fuel through that carb. So, from idle to WOT, the jet size impacts the overall A/F mix across the spectrum. Carbs at high altitude will require smaller jets while carbs at low altitude will require larger ones due to the difference in ambient air pressure (availability). When I lived in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the middle of town was at a mile-high. Down in the valley was ~4,000 ft or so, and if I decided to run up the foothills part of the city it was > ~6,500 feet in some areas. To top that off, if I wanted to drive up the crest road to the Sandia Mountain peak overlooking the city, I'd end up at about 10,600 feet or so. So, my carb-equipped (non-compensating) bike was always giving me fits with A/F mix. So I had to find a jet size that would give me the best overall fuel flow for the majority of my driving. Okay, that's the jet.

The 2nd part to the carb is the needle (trust me, I'm tying this into the Gil's Box question). If you've ever seen one, you'll know that the needle isn't a stright taper from thick end to the point. It actually has several shoulders and varying taper angles for the Idle, off idle, cruise and power "circuits" of the carb. The needle positioning, and current "circuit" of the carburetor is determined by the vacuum signal. Idle = high vacuum; WOT = low vacuum; and so on for everything in the middle.

On our EFI bikes, the term "Map" refers to the fuel profile that would be provided by the needles of old, plus ignition timing for all the various conditions. Now I haven't talked to Gil personally, so I don't know if there's anything else going on, but typically when someone references a better performing "stock map", what they've done is changed the programming to effectively do the same as chaning the jet size in a carburetor. The profiling for everythine else stays the same, but the overall fuel delivery rate is either increased or decreased across the RPM spectrum. In old mechanical injection and early EFI systems (before 02 sensors were employed) there were no jets to change. The way we'd manage the same changes were with fuel pressure. If it wasn't already equipped with one, we'd install an adjustable fuel pressure regulator that would allow us to dial in the fuel pressure according to need and this was effectively the same as changing a jet size. Agian, the performance profiling stayed the same. More fuel pressure in the fuel rail = richer; Less = leaner. With an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and an exhaust gas analyzer, we could tune an engine perfectly... well, for a static condion anyway (altitude being our biggest variable).

So, given that and the fact that our bikes are running on the lean side to start (rough idle, stumbling here and there, etc), I can understand how a specrum-adjusted "stock map" would really help. Ah, but what happens if you change altitude? There's no 02 sensor to drive relative A/F adjustment. This is the question I have, and I'll be taking a trip with a dozen doughnuts to my local HD dealer's service department to discuss how they compensate for altitude. (It's amazing what a dozen doughnuts will get you!)

 

[Johnny VRod]

Well,

I did about 100 miles with the 8 3/8" drilled holes on each pipe. I have to tell you that I should have taken her out for one last ride to stop and "feel" the bikes performance before I drilled the holes, so I could really feel if there was any performance change. With my luck, there is absolutely no bogging down or hick-ups in any part of the low, mid, and high range of the engine. Acceleration is smooth all the way through. My guess is that the two O2 sensors in my 08 model are doing there job just fine and compensated for the increased flow.

I"m driving the VRSCAWA 08 by the way.

This is totally what I assumed for all V-Rods when I thought we all had 02 sensors. Thank you for confirming this!

Decel popping - how urgent to remedy?

The above thread is found under the v-rod EFI specific thread.

The dude talks about popping under deceleration, regardless of gear or down shifting. He's done considerably more work with 2-1 rinehart, topless and PCIII I believe.

The claim is that he is running lean.

If I'm not mistaken, I'm getting the same decel popping that he describes, but I don't know how bad it is compared to his. All I did was drill the exhaust with the 8 holes per. Now I'm wondering if I'm running too lean with these holes that I've added to my exhaust, and whether my O2 sensors are doing what they're supposed to and regulate everything.

Have I just walked down the path of having to get a PCIII and get my bike dynoed just to be safe? Or should I have just spent the money and purchased the BUB 2-1 I originally wanted plus all the goodies to tune it right, rather than the poor mans route I have taken?? No offense..

Okay, popping on decel is basically the ignition of unburned fuel in the exhaust system. You're always going to have some raw unburned fuel in your exhaust (called Hydrocarbons or HC). This is one of the emissions that led to regulations requiring catalyic converters in the 70's and led to EFI closed-loop (compenasting) systems over carburetors.

Anyway, what causes HCs in the exhaust? A) Running too rich an A/F mix. The engine cannot burn it all; B) Faulty ignition timing or component leading to improper burning of a proper fuel mixture; C) Low compression due to bad rings, head gasket or bad valves; D) Too lean an A/F mixture leading to a "lean misfire".

Basically, anything that leads to a misfire or partial burn will produce HC emissions. So, all that aside even with a properly running engine you will have some HCs in the exhaust. Why the popping on decel now that you've drilled your exhaust? Oxygen.

Fuel can only burn in a narrow ration with air. Too much air (oxygen) it can't burn. Too little air, again, it can't burn. That's why you can extinguish a lit match in a bucket of gasoline. (but don't try that!)

In a sealed exhaust system, this unburned raw fuel is in an environment deviod of oxygen because it was all used up in the combustion chamber. Without 02, these HCs can't burn. And once they hit the end of the tail pipe, they're so innudated with atmosphere (too much ambient 02) they can't burn. Hoever, if you have an exhaust leak, that changes things. If you have an exhaust leak, you know it's distinct sound made where it's leaking. That's because there's a positive pressure in the exhaust and it's escaping from the breach. But on decel, the throttle is closed and theres a significant pressure drop in the exhaust system that causes a venturi effect, thus sucking ambient air with oxygenINto the exhaust system through that leak rather than exhaust gasses escaping from there. With the engine heat, HC and O2 in the exhaust, we run into ignition of this mix.

Why do i bring up an exhaust leak? Well, if you think about it, by driling holes in your canister, you've create an exhaust leak. I mean, these holes are upstream of the tailpipe in the order of flow, aren't they? And why does the same thing happen to V-Modded pipes? Because the opening is so vast that ambient air runs upstream of the exhaust until the conditions are right for it to ignite.

It this a serious problem? If the engine is running well, no. It can be used as an indicator to running problems causing excessive HC emissions. But that aside, it's pretty harmless on bikes. On my old Honda VFR, I would get up to a good speed and kill the ignition while decelerating, thus loading the exhaust with a ton of raw gas from my carbs. When i felt that was enough, I'd flip the ignition back on and "Boom", would shoot out a huge plume of flame out of my Yoshimura can. I though it was really cool and it would freak out people in the cars next to me. Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) most EFI systems cut off all fuel on deceleration to save fuel and reduce emissions, but I'm not sure what our HD system do. If you're getting popping on decel, there are HCs present which tells me that fuel is still flowing into the engine. The more I learn about our HD fuel management systems, the less impressed I am.

 

[vroder]

I've followed this thread with some interest because of my own experiences with my exhaust system. When I purchased my '02 I had the 16 guage shotguns (SE-II) pipes installed. The dealer flashed my ECM with what was known as the stage 2 or SE-II map. I always had a stumble or surge at about 3000 rpm and pretty much just lived with it for about 20000 miles. My average mileage with this setup at moderate riding was 47+ mpg. At that mileage, I decided I wanted to change pipes, mostly for aesthetic reasons, and chose the Bubs Jugg Huggers mostly because they don't wrap around the engine. I didn't really want excessively loud, but had heard the Jugg Huggers sounded sweet. I also fitted a Gil's Box, as I had read that one would be needed with this change.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I had run the Jugg Huggers another 23000 miles and, once seat-of-the-pants tuning on the Gil's Box was complete, was pretty happy with the results. All surging was gone, had better low and mid-range response, but paid for it with some loss in peak HP. I told myself, and others, that I seldom ride at 8700 rpm and I was good with it. Until I got on the dyno a few weeks ago. Peak power was 85, torque at 60 ft. lb.! !!

I rode it home and changed back to my SE-IIs immediately. I purposefully changed nothing else. No tweaks to the Gil's Box, nothing. My configuration was, and still is: top on, K & N filter, Gil's Box, SE-II pipes. No other mods. Stock 30 tooth front pulley. Back to the same dyno: 105.8 peak HP, 71 ft. lb. of torque. I'm a happy man.

I should add that the dyno with the Bub's pipes showed my AFR to be almost a flat line right at 13:1. My seat-of-the-pants tuning was spot on. After the pipe change it was higher with more variability, averaging around 14:1. This shows that the SE-II pipes actually flow more than the wide open Jugg Huggers, even without the noise (they are louder than you'd expect, though, after all the miles). The additional flow is undoubtedly a result of the cross-overs built into the SE-II pipes. During a 180 mile day ride with a group this weekend (moderate riding, mostly back roads with one 45 mile romp down the super slab) I got 45.8 mpg. With the Jugg Huggers I averaged 42 - 43 mpg.

With the Gil's Box still installed and barely turned on, I'm getting great mileage, great performance, and none of the surging I put up with for 20000 miles. All you V owners out there need to quit trying to get the 1130 (or 1250, as it may be) to sound like a 45 degree torque monster and enjoy it for what it is. As someone on here already noted, there is a fairly fine line between awesome sound and annoying sound. Wide open RineHarts (and some others) are just annoying. If you are fighting a surging, stumbling, stalling problem, get a Gil's Box if you don't plan to add any other engine performance options. If you want to big bore it or turbo it or whatever down the road, then now is the time for a Race Tuner (SERT) or one of the other more sophisticated units. FWIW, that's my :2cents:

 

[SilverV]

Above you make the statement:

"With the Gil's Box still installed and barely turned on, I'm getting great mileage, great performance, and none of the surging I put up with for 20000 miles".

What do you mean by "barely turned on"? Are you running a stock map? Wtih a K&N, SE pipes and the Gils box, you're achieving about stock performance, albeit without the surging, etc. The reason I ask is (as above), I'm running a bone stock setup (muffler baffle holes welded up) but still notice a slight stumble in the 3 - 3.5k range under partial throttle (cruising along). Would a box with a stock setup clean up the hiccups/stumbles in my bike? I've placed an order for a PC with a stock map....hope to have it by Friday. Will be interesting.

 

[v-rog]

definitely getting the decel popping

Guys, I drilled the 8 1/4 holes on my '08 AW and I am getting too much popping...I only rid it once so I cannot tell if performance has been affected...I'm not too impressed with the sound...I guess this is my excuse to get the CFR exhaust system I've been wanting...:banghead:

 

[shinobi]

Guys, I drilled the 8 1/4 holes on my '08 AW and I am getting too much popping...I only rid it once so I cannot tell if performance has been affected...I'm not too impressed with the sound...I guess this is my excuse to get the CFR exhaust system I've been wanting...:banghead:

Okay, so I'm not the only one!!.. Son of a... I gotta say, for the number of people who have done this little mod, I don't think I've ever read anywhere of anyone mentioning the decel popping. It definitely cheapens the sound.

BUB7, Here I come...PCIII, here I come, filter... dyno... etc etc... = $$$$.$$ and one f'd up set of original pipes...

Damn...

 

[v-rog]

I'm with you shinobli

I read numerous threads about the great results but few about the after effects... Please let me know what kind of map you end up using for your Bub 7 and your K & N...I think I will do the same.