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Discussion Starter #1
A new noise on engine start has me worried. The bike in question is a 2007 Street Rod with 35,000 miles. I use 20W50 Mobil-1 V-Twin synthetic motorcycle oil and HD filters, changing these religiously every 5000 miles. The oil level is checked frequently and never allowed to go below half way on the dip stick. As a practical matter the bike does not burn any oil between oil changes.
I left the bike for a month at a shop so a tech friend could come up with better saddle bag brackets and a custom luggage rack. Before he could get to that project my old BMW had a transmission problem so I brought him the Beemer and took the V-Rod home to use as dalily transport.
When I started the bike, there was a heavy knocking for a second, then the engine was quiet. The oil pressure light went out as it should and I attributed this to the bike sitting for a month, though my other V-Rod has never done this after sitting for a month without use.
I took the bike home and used it for daily commuting and did not notice a further problem. Last Friday I changed the oil, checked the drain plug for fuzz and it was clean, completed the oil change, started the engine and everything was fine.
I had to be away for three days and when I started the bike this morning to go to work, I again heard a couple of heavy knocks when the engine was first started. The oil pressure light went out as usual.

Has anyone experienced this before and am I headed for a problem? The bike has ESP until August 2014 so I am covered by warranty. The shops are closed today so I wanted to run this past the crowd first.
 

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Bad Anti drain back valve?Try changing the oil filter now.Partly clogged oil pickup?Drop the pan and look.Check pressure sounds like oil pressure is taking time to build and may not be getting there.I doubt it's the tripple sprocket bolt (Oil light flikkers and bike will over heat)but check that to, takes 20 minutes.Almost forgot check the o ring in the oil pump and bi pass valve but everything on the right side has to come off.
See what the dealer says then tell them what to check and in what order.Mine was clueless and would have cost me $1000 bone head dollars if I let the idiots poke around scratching everything in the process
My pressure is
75psi on a cold start
68psi hot idle @ 180+ degrees
82psi at 3000rpm @ 180 degrees with fluttering needle
bi pass valve open @90psi
Spec is 43-90 @ 3000rpm and 180 degrees but take note of hot and cold idle as well under 30 psi is bad news hot or cold,the stupid oil switch is set at a pointless 5 psi
Good luck I hate that shit,happened to me and was sickening.I'm sure more experience people will chime in as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Bad Anti drain back valve?Try changing the oil filter NOW.Partly clogged oil pickup?Drop the pan and look.Check pressure sounds like oil pressure is taking time to build and may not be getting there.I doubt it's the tripple sprocket bolt (Oil light flikkers and bike will over heat)but check that to, takes 20 minutes.Almost forgot check the o ring in the oil pump but everything on the right side has to come off.
See what the dealer says then tell them what to check and in what order.Mine was clueless and would have cost me $1000 bone head dollars if I let the idiots poke around forever
My pressure is
75psi on a cold start
68psi hot idle @ 180+ degrees
82psi at 3000rpm @ 180 degrees with fluttering needle

Spec is 43-90 @ 3000rpm and 180 degrees but take note of hot and cold idle as well under 30 psi is bad news hot or cold,the stupid oil switch is set at a pointless 5 psi
Good luck I hate that shit,happened to me and was sickening .
Thank you very much for your insight. I don't have the Service Manual at work, so where is the anti-drainback valve located?
If this helps, I experienced this knock one time before changing the oil and filter (Genuine HD filters) and one time after changing the oil and filter. No fuzz on the drain plug either, not even one spec. Is the anti-drainback valve in the filter or in the filter housing on the engine?
 

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Not sure the v rod oil filter has a drain back valve but it's the easiest and cheapest thing to go at so that would be my first move regardless.Then the pick up and the sprocket bolt before they even start it and finally the oiling system.An oil pressure gauge is a must while checking because with out it you just dont know whats going on.I would let the dealer do it since it's under warranty.See what they say they think it could be then go from there.
They wanted to pull my oil pump and water pump because I had low oil pressure and overheating when I told them to check the sprocket bolt first.They had no idea the bolt capped the oil passage to the heads and that the clapping force drove the water pump.After I threw a fit they found it was the sprocket bolt and took 20 minutes to fix.
I got all my info here and would have been out an easy $1000 if not for the board members.I'm sure more experienced people will chime in soon but thats my 2 cents
 

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...where is the anti-drainback valve located?
...
...Is the anti-drainback valve in the filter or in the filter housing on the engine?
I don't know about any "anti-drainback" valves. However, both the oil filter and the oil pump have pressure relief bypass valves. The one in the pump opens at 88 psi (607 kPa) and reroutes the oil to the suction side of the pump. The one in the oil filter opens if the filter is clog and bypasses the filter element.
 

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sounds like the hydrolic cam tensioners may need adjustment.my 02 made a rattle on first start sometimes.no big deal if it goes away.at 7500 miles i doubt engine damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
sounds like the hydrolic cam tensioners may need adjustment.my 02 made a rattle on first start sometimes.no big deal if it goes away.at 7500 miles i doubt engine damage.
That sounds like a more logical candidate for the source of the noise I hear, however I am not aware there is any adjustment to these.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Is bike 1130 or 1250? The 1130 had the exhaust valve lifter on front head which would sometimes make noise at starting. You probably know this.
It's an 1130 cc engine and yes I am aware of the compression release on the front cylinder. This noise is brand new and I have been riding the bike for five years and 35,000 miles.
 

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when i let mine sit for that amount of time or longer (life keeps getting in the way lately) it makes the same noise at start up. its real brief and goes away. its been doing it since i got it back in 05 (mine is an 03)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I did a little reading in this site on some old posts. There appears to be a procedure to add shims to what is called the "secondary tensioner", the hydraulic plunger that is tensioned by oil pressure when the engine is running. It is kept tensioned when the engine off by a spring, and spring pressure can be trimmed to compensate for age by adding shims behind the plunger.
The secondary tensioners are on the left side of each head facing aft. My question is, can the secondary tensioners be removed without disturbing anything else? Or, do I have to lower the engine and pull the valve covers as I would to check valve clearances?
Thanks in advance because I left my Service Manual with my BMW tech friend in Long Beach, so I don't have it handy for reference.
 

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...can the secondary tensioners be removed without disturbing anything else? ...
I'd get my manual and read the procedure before proceeding but no, you don't need to lower the engine or remove the cam covers.

The procedure is in Chapter 1 (Maintenance) and involves rotating the cams to a "safe" position before removing the tensioners and measuring chain slack. The book procedure requires the use of a special cam chain measurement tool (HD-45334) and, if necessary, additional tensioner shims (40095-01K). This is an abbreviated version of the procedure:
  1. Support engine with scissors jack under frame at fuel tank
  2. Remove maxi fuse
  3. Disconnect negative battery lead
  4. Remove air filter top (you need to watch the intake valves open and close)
  5. Remove derby cover and horn
  6. Rotate engine (CCW, book suggests using HD-45314 wrench) with throttle open and watch front cylinder intake valves
  7. Continue rotating until valves fully open and then close
  8. Rotate an additional 90°
  9. Remove front cylinder secondary tensioner and sealing washer and insert HD-45334 to measure chain slack
  10. Count grooves that show on tool
  11. If 4 grooves are visible add 1 shim (only if chain noise is heard on start-up)
  12. If 3 grooves are visible add 2 shims (only if chain noise is heard on start-up)
  13. If 2 grooves are visible add 3 shims
  14. If 1 groove is visible add 4 shims
  15. Shims are installed by removing plunger from tensioner (protect plunger with cardboard and twist out with pliers). Coat shims with engine oil before installing in tensioner.
  16. Install secondary tensioner for front cylinder (never rotate engine with tensioners removed) and rotate engine while watching rear cylinder intake valves. Follow same procedure as before, rotating 90° after rear intake valves close and follow same procedure to measure chain slack and add shims if necessary.
 

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i reported this on my 08 DX last year , after 15k i heard a knock on start up but went away after a few minutes , i even took it to the dealer who had it overnight so could start cold then next morning

they said nothing wrong , now this year it does not make the sound so after a few months it went away i am on 23k now

so never did find out what it was ?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'd get my manual and read the procedure before proceeding but no, you don't need to lower the engine or remove the cam covers.

The procedure is in Chapter 1 (Maintenance) and involves rotating the cams to a "safe" position before removing the tensioners and measuring chain slack. The book procedure requires the use of a special cam chain measurement tool (HD-45334) and, if necessary, additional tensioner shims (40095-01K). This is an abbreviated version of the procedure:
  1. Support engine with scissors jack under frame at fuel tank
  2. Remove maxi fuse
  3. Disconnect negative battery lead
  4. Remove air filter top (you need to watch the intake valves open and close)
  5. Remove derby cover and horn
  6. Rotate engine (CCW, book suggests using HD-45314 wrench) with throttle open and watch front cylinder intake valves
  7. Continue rotating until valves fully open and then close
  8. Rotate an additional 90°
  9. Remove front cylinder secondary tensioner and sealing washer and insert HD-45334 to measure chain slack
  10. Count grooves that show on tool
  11. If 4 grooves are visible add 1 shim (only if chain noise is heard on start-up)
  12. If 3 grooves are visible add 2 shims (only if chain noise is heard on start-up)
  13. If 2 grooves are visible add 3 shims
  14. If 1 groove is visible add 4 shims
  15. Shims are installed by removing plunger from tensioner (protect plunger with cardboard and twist out with pliers). Coat shims with engine oil before installing in tensioner.
  16. Install secondary tensioner for front cylinder (never rotate engine with tensioners removed) and rotate engine while watching rear cylinder intake valves. Follow same procedure as before, rotating 90° after rear intake valves close and follow same procedure to measure chain slack and add shims if necessary.
Excellent. This is what I needed to see. I think I have the cam chain measuring tool but have to dig through the tool box tonight. The job looks simple enough though.
Thank you.
 

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Do the cam chain tensioners wear out on v rods?On typical Harley's you have to check and or replace them around 40000 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Shimming the secondary cam chain tensioners, which are the oil pressure operated hydraulic tensioners, solved the noise problem. Each tensioner required two shims.
Considering that with most OHC bikes you either have to live with some cam chain rattle as the engine ages, or do some serious tear down to get at and replace the tensioner and guide rails, I was very pleased with the way Harley gives you an easy way to address cam chain rattle.
BMW places a spring loaded racheting mechanism in the K-100/1100/1200 cam chain tensioner. Oil pressure extends the plunger in the tensioner, just as with the Harley, but the racheting mechanism inside the plunger prevents the plunger from retracting when oil pressure is lost when the engine is shut down. Still, it is good practice to replace at least the guide rails at 100K miles. Since you have to take the cam chain off to do this properly, I use it as an excuse to replace the chain.

Btw. thanks SteveR for the instructions from the manual as my manual is still at my friend's shop.
 
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