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Camming ? Maybe go the 4 intake cam route. Those Aussi guys had a fantastic set of adjustable cam gears about 10 years ago, and not slotted B/S but clockable secured gears. Don't know if anyone else has gotten a set or if anyone else still makes them but to me that would be a hot item to have to eek out even more performance - but over 300 Hp ? Yea that's current success, CONGRATULATIONS - worlds most powerful R Model V Rod ?? So -have you picked up your new brass balls yet to try to use all that power without going over backwards mukle ? :ROFLMAO: Great Job !! (y):cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
ECL -111deg
Thanks Karzza. Do you mean ECL -111 would be better or will happen without degreeing?

55deg BBDC (ECL-113) opening exh valve is in the reasonable mechanical limit. At least very precise valve lash adjustment should be used. 53deg BBDC (ECL-111) would give more tolerance there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
Camming ? Maybe go the 4 intake cam route. Those Aussi guys had a fantastic set of adjustable cam gears about 10 years ago, and not slotted B/S but clockable secured gears. Don't know if anyone else has gotten a set or if anyone else still makes them but to me that would be a hot item to have to eek out even more performance - but over 300 Hp ? Yea that's current success, CONGRATULATIONS - worlds most powerful R Model V Rod ?? So -have you picked up your new brass balls yet to try to use all that power without going over backwards mukle ? :ROFLMAO: Great Job !! (y):cool:
Yes this is derived from 4x intake route. SE stg1 is actually stock intake with 6deg retard. I will only regrind other pair of stock intakes to even milder. This is only for this turbo engine and perhaps not good for other engines. Based on results from dyno and my very precise ass :D

I have slotted sprockets but I do not 100% trust their locking with only two screws. Especially if there is very high remaining pressure in the cyl when the exh opens with large 0.012 valve lashes.

I can easily drop few ponies from top end to make this working efficiently. VE should be over 100 not below for turbo. I want to go my summer cottage one day with this bike without barrel of gasoline hanging on my back.

Actually I am not sure if top end will drop that much but let see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
Case opened. This is the heart of 300hp case. K&M Motorsports brace. Karzza has designed and produced very fine piece of plate which ties bottom together. It is one of thickest brace I have seen and the reason why there is long special main studs used. It was not easy to find those longer studs from ARP anymore. Every thread of upper half holes are used. If I do not remember wrong I drilled and threaded them little deeper. These are still M10 sized but M12 can be used also. Every other bolt is 12.9 high strength bolts.
Gas Font Motor vehicle Machine Auto part


Bottom half looks like this. Little case walking near the main bearings but nothing special. Stock engines looks like almost same there.
Black Motor vehicle Wood Engineering Automotive wheel system


Upper half looks like this. Main bearings are in place and not moved. They are loose pinned. Crank necks are in nice condition. Will be measured later. Crank axial play in tolerance.

Product Wood Font Engineering Gear


Main bearings are ok. Tiny groove found in upper half. These bearings are Ray Vreelands special coated bearings. Definitely will use same bearings for the future.

Light Gas Auto part Nickel Machine


Crank neck closer

Wheel Automotive tire Machine tool Gear Metalworking


Other side crank neck. Pictures are little bad. It looks like burned to blue but this is not true.

Household hardware Machine tool Gas Machine Nickel


Tranny survived

Light Engineering Nickel Auto part Machine



To be honest I am little bit disappointed that I opened case almost for nothing. It is in good shape. Of course it is quite little driven yet but still I made huge work for me for nothing and tear at least USD1000 here. Cam work could have been done in the bike. But next time I know better.

I will take out pistons too and change all slide bearings. I can take few photos from them later.

But perhaps I have shown that 300 is just a number. Nothing more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
Ceramic coating has worn form the front cyl piston skirt.
Nickel Metal Cylinder Fashion accessory Wood

Thermal barrier coating in the top is ok
Wood Kitchen utensil Saucepan Gas Cookware and bakeware

Conrod lower bearings are poorest. Opposite crank surface is still smooth.
Material property Font Gas Auto part Metal


It appears that I have difficulties embedding pictures. They show nice when writing but after saving to thread there is long white gap between which cannot be removed. What I am doing wrong?
 

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Everything looks great mukle ! Amazing how overbuilt and robust the original Revo engine is for stock N/A 60 hp a cylinder work - maybe that's why it weighs 200 Lbs and lasts 200,000 miles ! :oops: That excess engine weight makes much more sense when it's pumping out 150 Hp a cylinder, which again is an amazing achievement that only a handful of you boosted Revo guys have massaged to reliably extract. How many hours/miles/km's are on this build mukle ? Also guys I have a similar Trask steel brace for the low end - with ARP studs. I am mildly concerned about different expansion rates of the material of the brace and the aluminum case does anyone have an opinion or experience with that ? Also these braces partially block the oil return window into the lower sump, any problem with too much oil being held up in the arc of the rotating crank ? Or maybe more oil being tossed around there is a good thing ? I've thought of boring a 1" hole in the brace above the window to increase oil drainage - I'm just looking for some opinions / thoughts / experience - Thanks !! (y):cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
Agreed. Revo is very beautiful piece of machine and nicely adjustable for everybody's need. We are luck that there is still aftermarkets like Scott for these bikes.

This was my 3rd turbo basic generation. I call it generation when you pull it out from the bike, complete disassembly, rebuild and put it back there. If upgrading with e.g. new plenum within bike does not raise generation number. Only case splitting has made new gen for me. Now I have to rethink this again since I am doing more complete overhauling than doing something new.

This 3 gen was built in early 2019 so there is three driving season behind for this case. I drove 1.3-1.5K miles in one season with this. This is not my only bike. So total is around 4K to this build. Last season was with this bigger B&W EFR turbo and 300hp levels. 2019 and 2020 was with 250 and 270hp levels with Garret GT2554R.

Strong AL-7050 grade was chosen for the brace because its thermal expansion rate is nearly same than case and its yield strength 455Mpa is still as good as mild steels. There is huge hole in bottom gasket to adapt brace. It helps oil drainage too. I am currently using 1" deeper oil pan and longer oil pick up but there has not been noticeable difference compared to stock pan. Lack of oil has not been problem so far. Actually I have had small issues with too high oil pressure (85psi) and turbo. Had to restrict flow in there. In Garret I lubed turbine and made huge oil cloud to traffic lights. With EFR I lubed compressor and oil got from there to charge pipe, IC and the intake manifold. Nothing serious happened only huge mess.

Rectangle Font Wood Metal Circle


But please all kind of comments and thoughts are welcome. Free speech. I know I am echoing most parts from the Karzza's famous topic here but maybe there is some new twists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Well less is more or what do they say. I have now tested stock and long duration cams and between but this time I am going to very short grinds. Intake will be 222deg and exhaust 230deg measured at 1mm actual valve lifts. Grounding existing cams will reduce lift and I loose some flow there but compromises are inevitable. Overlap is approx. one degree when lobe centers are 110/115. Exh will open 50deg BBDC.

I just want to see other end. I can go back if this turns out shit.
 

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You mukle are the mad scientist of Revo Turbo installations !! Wild mechanical Revolution power tripling experiments, wild high Hp results, no explosions yet - very fun & interesting for all - I for one Love it ! please keep updating us - I'm really looking forward to pulling my engine, disassembling and reassembling with a 1250cc cases and Stage 2 Cams, boring compared to your mad man power builds but it will be fun and I got pretty much all the tools and parts now I just need the time to do it without interruptions from airplane and house repairs :rolleyes: Good luck to me on that - (y):cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Yes mad scientist is pretty much who I am and what I do for living. It is even more precise if that word scientist is left away. Boring mechanical engineer my wife would say.

Speaking of scientists did you know that Jamie Hyneman from Mythbusters likes Finland and he has nominated 2017 as a honorary doctor at LUT (Lappeenranta University of Technology) and from now 2021 he is the Professor of Practice and start lectures here and from the California by telepresence. I watched his first lecture from the robots what he and his crew made for the GE commercial in the States. It was interesting and structures were quite familiar fto me.

I find it fascinating and little bit admirable that guy from the sunny California come over here small, cold and dark country and start teaching and inspiring young people to the secrets of technics. He is doing very valuable work since I think that mechanical technology is starting to be out of fashion among young people. Everything is just social media and phones are grown to their hands. I find it little scary. Everybody should own motorcycle in some state of living and start messing with it. It is real life :ROFLMAO:
 

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Yes, he's a very interesting experimenter, great for him to inspire youth everywhere they need it badly today. Sad his prior show member Jesse Combs died in that 3 wheeled jet car land speed attempt at 550 Mph when the front wheel broke loose and collapsed, cartwheeling the vehicle - she was a very good racer and inspiring woman. We have a problem in the Aircraft industry only a small percentage of newly graduated A&P Mechanics have good mechanical skills - most have never worked on bicycles, mowers, mini bikes, motorcycles etc. as they grew up to become passionate mechanics, too much social media, computer and phone time as you say, fostering little or no "hands on" mechanical skills. Some pick it up slowly and a few are excellent straight away but nowhere near as many as 30 - 40 years ago, different times.

But we digress - do you think the coated main and rod bearings you are running ( Vreelands ? ) are needed, preferred over H-D uncoated or are just overkill for a street ridden 135 rwhp Revo ? I haven't ordered them yet since I haven't disassembled the engine to be able to get the bearing codes but bearings are one of the last items on my list so I would appreciate your input on them. (y):cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
Yes I noticed that sad accident of Jesse Combs. RIP Jesse.

But we digress - do you think the coated main and rod bearings you are running ( Vreelands ? ) are needed, preferred over H-D uncoated or are just overkill for a street ridden 135 rwhp Revo ? I haven't ordered them yet since I haven't disassembled the engine to be able to get the bearing codes but bearings are one of the last items on my list so I would appreciate your input on them. (y):cool:
This bearing coating divide people and their opinions. I think that it certainly do not harm but how much there is gain can be little to none. As you could see from the pics above there is still quite good layer of coating left and opposite surface in the crank is smooth. So I believe coating has worked and friction properties are better than without. Unfortunately this time I have had many part sourcing problems and for example Vreeland did not replied my multiple queries about purchasing them more. Hopefully you have better luck with them. So I had to order original uncoated HD parts from our local dealer and I am thinking possibilities to coat them here. But are they as good as Vreeland's is hard to say without testing. Also thicker head gaskets are very hard to buy and piston rings as well which was bought from Vreeland's last time. It is a real pity if I do not get right parts I would like to and have to do compromises or worst of all put old parts in :( Maybe there is still something with the Covid-19 or sending few parts to Finland ain't worth the effort.
 

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Wondering if that coating is Moly spray - we use that on aircraft for high load surfaces it's basically Molybdenum Disulfide grease in a spray can that cures to a matt finish ( not greasy, but a shell type coating )- if so it can be sprayed on cold easily LPS and I believe Locktite and many other brands are available. It can't be too expensive of a coating Vreelands sells the coated bearings for not much more than H-D OEM parts themselves. I can get MIL spec and product #'s and post here later if you think that may be the coating - (y):cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
Wondering if that coating is Moly spray - we use that on aircraft for high load surfaces it's basically Molybdenum Disulfide grease in a spray can that cures to a matt finish ( not greasy, but a shell type coating )- if so it can be sprayed on cold easily LPS and I believe Locktite and many other brands are available. It can't be too expensive of a coating Vreelands sells the coated bearings for not much more than H-D OEM parts themselves. I can get MIL spec and product #'s and post here later if you think that may be the coating - (y):cool:
Yes please keep researching other possibilities for coating bearings. There could be also whole different methods like diamond coating which could be used succesfully in automotive purposes too. Oerlikon balzers is one of the leading companies in the world what comes to improving performance and durability by surface treatments. I have thought this many times but have not courage to start testing e.g diamond coating so far.
 
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