[RogerF765]

Holy Crap Batman I hate it when that happens ! See if you can find out what the autopsy report says RogerF765 - we try to keep track of that kinda stuff around here - Thanks !

Well I got it back today and they said that i an oil pump failure which is weird because the oil pressure light never came on. I need to figure out how to put an actual gauge on it it though. They even threw my new slipper clutch in it andI it is running great. Now I just need to put the power Vision in it to get it tuned and she’ll be 100%.

 

[coastrider]

Anybody else thinking " Triple Sprocket Bolt" ?

 

[MidNightrod Special]

Hello fellow R-riders!

We all own and enjoy now a 14-15 years old machines that for sure are kept, pampered and maintained to our common highest possible standards, but still time goes by and never stops ticking...

Meanwhile I'm wondering if as in our own life, it's time or "mileage" what we should really consider to use the "O" word... (being that word "old"... of course...) View attachment 606395

Mine is a 2006 built in 2005 with currently some 35k km or about 22k miles.

Not "old" to me by any means, but still wondering about when or with how many clicks on the odometer I should consider my streetrod aged enough to worry...

I consider VERY rude asking someone's age, but maybe we all can share our bike's age and mileage so we can have a real world sample of the current condition of the fleet and/or our thoughts about the probable life expectancy of our machines before a major overhaul should be performed

Who's with me?

Ride safe! (Those of you able to do so now... we here in the far and cold north are still hibernating for the winter...)

Am I missing something? I did 22k miles in the first year of buying my night rod

 

[RogerF765]

Anybody else thinking " Triple Sprocket Bolt" ?

It wasn’t the triple sprocket bolt. That’s the first thing that I checked and it was tight and I’ll be putting lock tight and re torquing the one on the new engine.

 

[DESERTRAT]

Well, be thankful it's a V-Rod. The engine on my 2001 Road King ran the big end bearing at 46,700Kms. Cost me over $6K to have it repaired and replacement crankshaft was denominated "E" over a 5 year period according to the dealer. That's one iteration every 12 months for a Harley crank. The litany of problems followed my ownership for 15 years until the wife demanded that the "bottomless pit" be sent off to more deserving owners. The list of dealers who gave me a variety of reasons for the knocking noise and expensive attempts at fixing it was legend. One told me it was the cam chain tensioner and charged me $780. When I picked up bike and pointed out the knocking sound was still evident, he said, "All Harley's make that sound". Not what he said initially. When I first took the bike in and he heard it, his response was, "Better leave it here. Don't ride it while it makes that sound or take it straight home". Never went near a dealer again for repairs.

THE BIG TWINS HAVE A RUN OUT ISSUE ON THE OIL PUMP SIDE WITH THE SHAFT CAUSED BY THE FUNKY BEARINGS THEY USED AND AFTER TWO CHANGES IT STILL ISNT FIXED RIGHT -S&S HAS A SHAFT AND A BEARING PLUS A PUMP BODY FOR THE FIX -

 

[DESERTRAT]

Am I missing something? I did 22k miles in the first year of buying my night rod

I GOT A 1973 SUPERGLIDE I BOUGHT NEW AND HAVE HAD NOW FOR 47 0R 48 YEARS --100 INCH S&S MOTOR THAT IS STILL KICKING ASS

 

[streetrodracer]

So it's a good time to bring up the Revo HD OEM oil pump issue again - the one last item I'm needing for my new engine build is the oil pump, and I'm struggling with either buying an " improved " 26575-01KB 4 Lobe '08 & up oil pump or buy an original 26575-01KA 8 Lobe oil pump (and continue to use my K&P Engineering SS Mesh filter which helped to reduce oil filter restriction and back pressure which can lead to the 8 lobe pump stalling and not supplying oil pressure at high Rpm -) A case could be made for either pump and I don't know if the older style pump was responsible for Roger F765's engine failure

 

[rbabos]

So it's a good time to bring up the Revo HD OEM oil pump issue again - the one last item I'm needing for my new engine build is the oil pump, and I'm struggling with either buying an " improved " 26575-01KB 4 Lobe '08 & up oil pump or buy an original 26575-01KA 8 Lobe oil pump (and continue to use my K&P Engineering SS Mesh filter which helped to reduce oil filter restriction and back pressure which can lead to the 8 lobe pump stalling and not supplying oil pressure at high Rpm -) A case could be made for either pump and I don't know if the older style pump was responsible for Roger F765's engine failure

Something I've pondered as well between the pumps. As for the K&P not a fan as it has no ADV in it. I feel this is important to reduce the siphon effect back to the sump and reduce the oiling time delay to some components, heads mostly. 4 lobe pump is a low pressure /volume pump and this can be most noticed at hot oil pressure. The idle psi can drop down to the 20s when oil is really hot. 65psi is generally the normal operating pressure over 2 - 3k rpms. While both psi numbers are fine, it does point to the 4 lobe being somewhat inefficient. My personal bike, the 4 lobe is very prone to losing it's prime on oil changes if not done carefully. The constant displacement isn't what an 8 lobe would be for this priming aspect. The big question is, did HD actually come up with the 4 lobe to eliminate the so called cavitation over 7k, or was it to free up some extra hp in the 1250cc? Both pumps have been known to fail. Getting straight answers on pumps is tough, but that's my 2 cents on the subject.
Ron

 

[streetrodracer]

cont' - but it sounds like it may have been, possibly the O/P relief valve got stuck with debris like one of the last Revo engine autopsy's we went thru here - The old style pump reportedly has better low Rpm oil pickup and pressure but not as good at high Rpm as the newer pump but it has lower low Rpm O/P as a trade off. Decisions decisions - In any event there is no faster way to kill any engine than low or 0 oil pressure at high Rpm -

 

[streetrodracer]

Great thoughts there Ron, so I went to the K&P SS mesh filter to cure a slow to extinguish low O/P light and a light 2-3 second rod knock at startup and it did that, light goes right out now. I don't think with the oil filter being so low on the Revo that the lack of an anti-drain back valve is a problem - if it was higher like my car with a remote O/F on the inner fender yes it's a factor - in a way I think you're right the 4 lobe is actually a better pump at low Rpm and maybe since I've removed the oil filter restriction it's almost as good as the 8 lobe at high Rpm. Yes, I think HD was aware of potential 8 lobe pump problems at high Rpm and yes the 4 lobe may give a couple Hp on the 1250 engine but it also looks simpler and cheaper to me if anything that was the final deciding factor for H-D - damn the low Rpm lower O/P when hot side effect - think I'll stick with the 8 lobe just buy a new one Thanks !

 

[rbabos]

cont' - but it sounds like it may have been, possibly the O/P relief valve got stuck with debris like one of the last Revo engine autopsy's we went thru here - The old style pump reportedly has better low Rpm oil pickup and pressure but not as good at high Rpm as the newer pump but it has lower low Rpm O/P as a trade off. Decisions decisions - In any event there is no faster way to kill any engine than low or 0 oil pressure at high Rpm -

8 lobe has higher pressure all over, in some ways too much. You don't need 80-90psi for this engine. There are some negatives once you get that high. Could this be the cause of possible cavitation, who knows? That max psi can be dialed back with custom relief valve adjustment to say 70-75 and keep the low end pressures up at the same time as a win win situation. Cavitation was the concern with the 8 lobe. If one can determine why, the 8 lobe pump in my view is a better pump overall. Cavitation is generally caused from the inability of the inlet side to keep the fluid solid and not hit a state of vacuum where bubbles occur in the suction side. Otherwords, inlet between the pump and pan too small. Can you even find a new early pump anymore? I see early pumps are for sale on Ebay and no 4 lobe the last time I looked. Then again, last thing I'd be doing is buying a used oil pump, period. I'm personally not a fan of the 4 lobe but it does the job but it still seems lame to me and with it's output and suction it couldn't cavitate if it's life depended on it. As I see it HD fkd up and instead of redesign the inlet area between the pump and pick up screen, the easiest solution was change the pump so the inlet couldn't hit the oils vapor pressure. One other odd thing. Not sure you can even buy the 8 lobe new any more. Even Ronnies lists one pump for 02-17. That is the 26575-01KB.
Ron

 

[streetrodracer]

Yea, all true Ron a custom spring for the relief valve just might do it - also with oil pumps the outlet back pressure is another factor in the cavitation point - the more resistance to flow through the system ( from oil viscosity, temp and the pump pressure outlet through the filter and on to the set flow resistance of the internal engine bearing, piston jets and top end delivery ) so the higher the output back pressure the closer it gets to stalling the inlet and creating bubbles - the number of lobes also a big factor - maybe a six lobe pump would have been the best of all worlds. In any event I'll search for a new 8 lobe and think about a custom relief spring that might be all a guy can really do to optimize as I want good oil pressure in low & higher mid Rpms for bearings, piston cooling jets and because that's where the majority of street riding is - not at 8 -9000 Rpm that's maybe only 5% of the time to worry about 8 lobe pump cavitation - also I've got to install an O/P gauge visible while riding up near the gauge cluster - I'm thinking an electronic sender & gauge rather than direct reading with pressure hose what you think ? great thoughts Ron, thanks !

 

[rbabos]

Yea, all true Ron a custom spring for the relief valve just might do it - also with oil pumps the outlet back pressure is another factor in the cavitation point - the more resistance to flow through the system ( from oil viscosity, temp and the pump pressure outlet through the filter and on to the set flow resistance of the internal engine bearing, piston jets and top end delivery ) so the higher the output back pressure the closer it gets to stalling the inlet and creating bubbles - the number of lobes also a big factor - maybe a six lobe pump would have been the best of all worlds. In any event I'll search for a new 8 lobe and think about a custom relief spring that might be all a guy can really do to optimize as I want good oil pressure in low & higher mid Rpms for bearings, piston cooling jets and because that's where the majority of street riding is - not at 8 -9000 Rpm that's maybe only 5% of the time to worry about 8 lobe pump cavitation - also I've got to install an O/P gauge visible while riding up near the gauge cluster - I'm thinking an electronic sender & gauge rather than direct reading with pressure hose what you think ? great thoughts Ron, thanks !

Much easier to rig and locate an electric sensor then plumb a line up to the cluster. Problem is, you only need to stall the pump or cavitate it once for destruction at high rpm. You can't stare at that damn gauge all the time, so you could still miss the event. Something that will stick in your mind and keep you from visiting those rev limit rpms out of doubt. I bet you won't give it a second thought with the 4 lobe and likely enjoy the bike more.
I remember flying two strokes and fixated on that dam EGT most of the time. What a breath of fresh air it was to not even have one with the last Continental four stroke I flew. I remember also unintentionally testing out the ABS one time, fixated on the damn PV when I was tuning. The car ahead braked really hard in front of me. Shit can happen so fast and unexpected sometimes. So, for at least for me, while I have visual reference to the gauge, it requires a look down to see it and not something I'd attempt nearing 9k rpm. I basically use it for reference on startup, view it a couple times on a cruise or see what my idle pressure is at shutdown. I know the 4 lobe won't cavitate and the not staring front and center of the oil pressure gauge should keep me from running into something. Nothing is ever simple, is it?
Ron