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Killer Service Inc.
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8,929 Posts
Sorry to hear this Noel, good luck.

I hope it is just a small matter!
 

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Lubedude
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213 Posts
Im so sorry Noel. Let me know if there's anything I can do on my end.

By the way, you may have dodged a bullet. I had an issue with exhaust valves sticking on my other drag bike. Combination of too tight clearance and lead deposits. Made a helluva racket, but fortunately, no piston contact.

Sam
 

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Lubedude
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213 Posts
Also, that big "Bang!" you heard was probably a backfire, especially with a sticking exhaust valve.
 

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drag racer
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6,699 Posts
i agree with the full tear down noel. i wish i was closer so i could come help.
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Thanks Robbie, I'm sure you would be into it up to your elbows with me if you could, appreciate the support!
 

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drag racer
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6,699 Posts
Thanks Robbie, I'm sure you'd into it up to your elbows if you could, appreciate the support!
10-4 brother, you know my dedication to the sport. i been drag racing for 2/3s of my life. i got two hobby's, drag racing and drinking beer, and i'm good at both!...lol
 

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Registered
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149 Posts
Hopefully like sam said it's stuck exhaust valve, sounds like it to me. Just hope it didn't strike the piston and mar or bend anything. Sounds like your pretty meticulous on your work. Back in the day when I used rebuild older harley's regularly, had a few occassions where ex. valves would stick if not clearance enough.
I now use moly lube on all metal to metal friction surfaces on assembly, like cam lobes and valve stem guides. Lucas make a good assembly lube, on the guides i usually use a q-tip dip in moly lube and then put a little under the stem seals. Just sayin.

Hopefully it nothing major, good luck. I'm sure you'll let us know what happened.
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
Hopefully like sam said it's stuck exhaust valve, sounds like it to me. Just hope it didn't strike the piston and mar or bend anything. Sounds like your pretty meticulous on your work. Back in the day when I used rebuild older harley's regularly, had a few occassions where ex. valves would stick if not clearance enough.
I now use moly lube on all metal to metal friction surfaces on assembly, like cam lobes and valve stem guides. Lucas make a good assembly lube, on the guides i usually use a q-tip dip in moly lube and then put a little under the stem seals. Just sayin.

Hopefully it nothing major, good luck. I'm sure you'll let us know what happened.
Thanks for that tip, I use a red molly assembly lube cut with 20/50 for assembly.

I think we will need to open up these guides a little more like you & Sam said!!

I think it hit the piston and might have tweaked it a bit, though the sister valve did not strike and is properly closing, so maybe it's simply stuck do to insufficient clearance when we reamed & ball honed it

The Engine is out of the frame at this hour, got myself a small flat dolly with wheels to easily maneuver the engine out of the frame. I'm getting really good at R&R :deal:
976975_10201413943374922_308590484_o.jpg
 

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Registered
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149 Posts
Man you are on it. Your going to get real good at this. The Lucas assembly lube I've had real good luck with is called Lucas semi-synthetic assembly lube, it comes in a squezze bottle, says it contains Zinc, Moly and other high ptressure additives for maximum protection during breakin. Got it at Autozone. Hope your back in the saddle soon.
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #90
Answers in hand, I kicked a shim, then the keepers unloaded, new beehive is OK, damaged the bucket, bent the valve, tagged the piston.

There was no major bearing material on the upper or lower oil pan gaskets (Whew), but I still plan to change the mains and rod bearings.

Might as well commence with my 2014 winter project -NOW-!

Ray's Spec: Dyer Rod's, Destroyer Pistons, Main & Rod bearings.

Heavy Duty 10mm lower case studs.

Two new front exhaust valves, both appear to be damaged even though only one unloaded.
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
Pulled from another thread:
I didn't know you could do that with shim under bucket! How the heck did it happen?
Too much clearance (unlikely) or the shim may have slipped out of position on the spring collar, this could have happened pre-assembly!

The movement might have occurred when I transported the heads to my shop or when I was installing them.

Lesson learned the hard way, triple check your clearances after every major movement of the heads.

I humbly submit that this is an error caused by me, live and learn more!
 

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Premium Member
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343 Posts
Darn Noel, that's disappointing. You're holding up much better than I would. I'd probably be throwing a tantrum, kickin' the dog, cat or Robbie;-)

Hang in there. Your encyclopedic documentary skills are incredible and a priceless resource for the rest of us.
 

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Autobanmod
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9,871 Posts
Happened to me too, more than once, but with OEM valve springs...
No need to ripp it all apart, tape the gap and smoothen the Piston crown in situ.
I notice that you have the retainer machined aswell?
1523 PAC?
 

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Noel
Joined
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
Hang in there. Your encyclopedic documentary skills are incredible and a priceless resource for the rest of us.
That's why I am sharing, for the benefit of all the engine builders out there, most of which I'm sure are are aces at their trade, I think I am pretty meticulous myself, but sometimes mistakes are made.
:notworth:
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #95
Happened to me too, more than once, but with OEM valve springs...
No need to ripp it all apart, tape the gap and smoothen the Piston crown in situ.
I notice that you have the retainer machined aswell?
1523 PAC?
My Buddy Bill suggested the same, he's raced worse looking pistons on his old Kawi's.

But I'm looking longer term, make this rock solid refresh, things I was holding out for until winter 2014 might as well be done now.

I don't think I'll get more than 40 passes the rest of this season even if I get her up and running next week.

The Next race 7/6, I am sure to miss, but the following one will be 8/3. This is enough time to complete everything I need to do, depending on how deep I go with the mod's :broke:

Those retainers are for the destroyer style valves, they are slightly smaller in diameter, with the single cut keepers.
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
Bottom Opened up

I split the cases this evening.

The Pistons seem OK, no apparent cracks only the valve pocket on the front is a bit mashed, Yes it could probably go back in, but in the long run I'd rather have new ones in there.

The ROD's also seem fine the small end bushings at the piston PIN no sloppy lash, they glide smoothly on the wrist pin laterally. But there horror stories of these breaking after a few seasons of racing, changing them for peace of mind if nothing else.

The Crank looks great, no abnormal wear, all bearings Rods & Mains are not badly worn, a few high shinny traces, but the got to be changed after a case splitting procedure. Red-Red-Red-Green.

The Tranny is in fine shape, the straight cut second gear installed winter of 2012 is in great condition, all the DOGS are no worse than they were at the last inspection.

The case upper & lower cleaned up of all the old case sealant, last application was accurate and no oil feeds were blocked.

Parts orders going in tomorrow, this is the second vacation in a row where I have been elbow deep in engine work, the Secretary of my Treasury has been apprised of the urgency of this special requisition, other projects have been re-prioritized! :deal:

The NHRA RACERS are in the region, I will be at Epping each of those days to watch how the professionals do it. Thursday, Friday Saturday me and racer friends will be there. Sunday Marie goes with me to see it all, this will be her (our) Second time to see the Pro's:notworth:
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
Parts on order with Vreelands HD (shipping today) and Precision HD special order in process.:notworth:
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #98
Ray's parts are here already, thank You Mr Vreeland!
 

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Noel
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4,579 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
I will be getting the crank and rotor fine balanced to the new RODS & CP Destroyer Spec Pistons sans dynamic balancer by http://lindskog.com/index.php.

Dropping the parts of with Zint on Friday afternoon so that he can get it done, hope to have it back in about 3 weeks.
 

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Registered
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149 Posts
Sans dynamic balancer meaning your removing the balancer? Have many done this? Removing any rotating weight should improve hp, just wondering why the factory didn't do this on the destroyer originally. Used to roto balance our old dirttrackers, definately a worthwile expense when down. Looking forward to the results.
 
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