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VRFI Closed Loop fuel injection from Daytona Twin-Tec

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12K views 45 replies 11 participants last post by  mjw930  
#1 ·
I spent the better part of Saturday with Chris Schroeder from Daytona Twin-Tec. We installed the VRFI (V-Rod Fuel Injection) closed loop system on my bike today. :dance:

For a little background, Chris has been in the high performance after market business for the last 20+ years. Prior to forming Daytona Twin-Tec 4 years ago with his partner, Allen he spent 10 years as the chief engineer for Crane Cams. Chris is the engineering brains behind the operation, he writes all the software and designs all the products they sell. All of the products are built through contract manufacturing with final assembly being performed at their shop in Daytona. The TCFI / VRFI is licensed technology. They own the exclusive rights to produce and sell this product from the original designer and patent holder. All of the bike specific firmware is written in house by Chris.

Initial impressions:

The hardware installation is about a 1 hour job taking your time. The entire project will take the better part of a day. The steps are spelled out in their installation manuals on their site, http://www.daytona-twintec.com/VRFI.html. I've also spelled out the steps farther down in this post.

Now, for the performance review. THIS THING ROCKS! The bike has NEVER run this smooth and had this much power at every point in the power band. There is absolutely NO deceleration popping or surging at any RPM that I can detect. I actually scared myself rolling on power in 3rd gear at 4000 rpm. The bike jumped forward so fast that I wasn't ready for it. It's always had a minor flat spot in the mid range that caused a little hiccup, that's GONE!

Another thing I noticed is the motor is smoother across the entire power band. I can't explain it but with the Delphi unit I picked up resonant vibrations at various rpms. With the VRFI there are NO vibrations at any RPM in any gear. This one has me baffled and I need to get some more miles on this thing to make sure I'm not losing my mind.

PLEASE NOTE This is a new unit (although the technology is proven on the air cooled Delphi bikes). The Alpha unit on Chris' bike only has about 500 miles on it so we need to get a few more miles on this before it's taken out of "Beta" test and released to the general public.

As with all things in life nothing is perfect. There are 2 very minor issues I have with the unit (actually they are related)
  1. It does not use the Ion Sensing circuit for detonation sensing and spark retard. It's a combination of a patent issue with Delphi as well as a technical issue with the sensing circuit itself (very low signal to noise ratio)
  2. The spark tables are currently based on standards for motors of this type and power rating. Without the Ion Sensing it's going to be tougher to fine tune them.

For those who are interested and don't want to read the instruction manual Here are the steps:
  1. Remove Factory ECM
  2. Replace with VRFI unit
  3. Install WEGO unit
    • Install ground for WEGO on main engine ground under airbox, this takes the most time because you have to remove the airbox to get to it.
    • Tap fuse box for switched power
    • Velcro unit on top of battery
    • Perform free air calibration of O2 sensor
    • Install O2 sensor on front pipe (assumes you already have the pipe prepped with a bung)
  4. Connect WEGO to ECM by adding a pre-wired pin to position #8 in the ECM connector
  5. Tidy up wires but leave the wire to the O2 sensor outside so it can be moved to the rear for the trim adjustment
  6. Power up bike with the run/stop off
  7. Switch to run and leave it for 5 seconds, Switch to stop then back to on and leave it for 5 seconds
  8. Start bike and observe proper idle, If it doesn't idle correctly then shut down and perform throttle body sync and TPS adjustments (not needed on my bike or most stock bikes)

Now that it's installed you need to start the auto tuning process.

  1. That consists of multiple runs going through as many throttle position / RPM ranges as you can manage.
  2. After each session you plug the bike in and take a look at the Block Learn Multiplier (BLM) table.
  3. The values should be from 95 to 105, if there are swings outside this range then you "apply" the BLM table to the Alpha-N table to update the base map. That zero's out the BLM making it ready for your next tuning pass.
  4. Once you see all (or most) of the BLM values within the 95 - 105 range you have achieved a very good base tune.

From here you need to calculate the rear cylinder trim.

  1. Open the PC-Link software and change the sample rate to .1 or .2 seconds and uncheck the "Closed Loop" option. That keeps the bike in open loop and simply logs the AFR readings
  2. Move the O2 sensor to the rear pipe (remembering to plug the front hole)
  3. Make many short runs trying to get as many samples in as many TPS/RPM cells as possible. It take short runs here because of the small sample rate. The internal memory can only hold 3 minutes of data at a rate of one sample every .1 seconds.
  4. After EACH RUN you need to plug the bike in and upload the AFR table onto you PC. Each run will be a separate file
  5. Once you have made a significant number of runs you now need to combine these files and allow the system to calculate a rear trim value for each TPS/RPM cell. This is done within the software and you need to review the results and smooth the data for un-logged cells.
  6. Save the rear trim into the master map file
  7. Reset the map parameters to a .5 second sample rate and check the "Closed Loop" operation option
  8. Save this file then download it into the ECM
  9. Move the O2 sensor back to the front pipe (remembering to plug the rear hole)

Here's some things that I need to do:
  1. Perform the rear cylinder trim, I'm using the values from his bike with the SuperTrapp. It shouldn't be that much different but I need to do it regardless.
  2. Clean up the wiring once that's done to hide the wire going to the sensor
  3. Get some more miles on the unit to really see how it handles various situation.
 
#2 ·
This just in!

Chris just emailed me the following
Also, we have added the VRFI to our website and will start taking orders for beta test units. We will offer dealer pricing of $520.00 for the complete kit to anyone interested for the immediate future.
You can check the unit out at http://www.daytona-twintec.com/VRFI.html and contact them directly if you want to be in on the beta test program.

Warning: This is a BETA test. That means that you will be asked to try various different updates and be responsible to forward any observations or problems directly to Chris @ Daytona Twin-Tec. Expect there to be at least one firmware update and numerous tweaks as we get more miles on this thing. THIS IS NOT for someone who is not very familiar with Motorcycle Fuel Injection and Computers.
 
#4 ·
They are not a servicing dealership meaning they don't work on motorcycles (their lease prohibits it). They have dealers in the area that could do the install but that would have to wait until after the beta test period.

One of the reasons for the price break assumes the end user will be proficient enough to do the installation, perform any flash or programming updates and feed that information back to them. So, to participate you would really need to be proficient in the meachanical, electrical and computer components of the bike as well as Windows and EEPROM flash programming.

Now, having said that they may have a dealer in your area or in Daytona that would work with them on the beta test and be your interface. I know that one of the techs at the Arlan Ness store in Daytona is doing a lot of testing work on big bore S&S motors for Chris. Give him a call and talk it over with him, who knows?

FYI, since this is a new application I carry the Delphi unit as well as the parts needed to replace it wherever I go. Until we get more time on this version it's still considered a TEST.
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
Wow Mark! Pretty exciting. Please keep us posted as to how this all unfolds.
 
#8 ·
I recently installed one or these systems on a TC FatBoy with a 114" big bore kit. It truly is an incredible set-up. Did take the best part of one day to do the install, includes installing fittings in the exhaust for the heated O2 sensor. Once familiar with the software and communication, it is a very versatile and very tunable system for any engine modificatoions you do in the future. I am very interested in having one!
 
#9 ·
trickvrod said:
If we buy into one of these Beta units and help complete the testing will we receive a production unit when they are available?
The only difference between a regular production unit and the one that's part of the beta test will be the label and the firmware. The hardware is stable and not anticipated to change. The firmware is flashable by the end user without removing the ECM from the bike. The WEGO II AFR device is a production unit.

So the answer is No, you won't get a new box but Yes, you will have all the latest firmware/software. BTW, Daytona Twin-Tec doesn't sell their software, it's available free from their website. As the device matures and patches are made to the firmware you have unlimited access to it.
 
#10 ·
Mark,
Does the WEGO II throw codes like the ECM since it replaces it? Also, I assume it must turn the fans on/off at the appropriate temp like the ECM? Just a couple "I wonder" items.
 
#11 ·
Brent,

There are 2 parts to the upgrade, the VRFI which replaces the Delphi ECM and the WEGO II which is the interface between the O2 sensor and the VRFI.

The VRFI will record and maintain trouble codes just like the Delphi unit but I believe they can only be cleared using the VRFI PC software. As for the fans, yes, it controls them just like the Delphi with the addition of you being able to program the on and off points as well as a heat soak interval that leaves the fans on for a pre-determined time after you shut off the bike it they are running at that time.
 
#12 ·
Mark,
Thanks for the info. Being able to control on/off points for the fans will be good for those drag racing and us in those in ultra hot environments. Since part of optimum performance from our motors is having coolant temp somewhere around 190-200 degrees I believe.
 
#13 ·
Well, I spoke with Chris for about 20 minutes and then Steve at V-Mod to make sure things look good for my BB Stroker motor. I got the green light from both, so I ordered mine just a few minutes ago.

I did read something on the site that said it was compatible with the HD Handheld Scanner (technician) so I would assume that can still be used to reset any error codes.

A few things I did not see is a setting for the gear ratio (like for a chain drive or 28 tooth pully), table entries above 10K rpm, rev limit above 10K.
 
#14 ·
The speed calibration is made through a value called VSS and it totally variable. The manual explains how to set this and contains values for the 28T and the 30T. You can dial it in for any ratio.

The unit only goes to 9900 rpm for now. Chris would have to let you in on what's involved to get it higher. Since the device is totally field upgradable I imagine once he opens it up into the higher RPM ranges you can update yours to match.
 
#15 ·
I took some data logs during my passes Sunday at Moroso. I forgot to change the data log interval to .1 sec so I only captured data points every .5 seconds (2 per second) so there are gaps in the data.

The AFR swings you see in the data are expected as the system compensates for deceleration enleanment and acceleration enrichment.

Regardless, I think it points out the system is working as advertised. I also like the ability to data log without an additional computer on the bike :thumb:
 

Attachments

#16 ·
mjw930 said:
I also like the ability to data log without an additional computer on the bike :thumb:
Mark, you're getting spoiled....... :rolleyes:
 
#18 ·
Pretty impressive! It would be nice to see the graph with the faster sampling rate. Man, I can't imagine gathering data without having to worry about the bungee net holding my laptop securely to the bike..........
 
#21 ·
I received my VRFI kit today from Daytona Twin Tech! The quality of the components and documentation is TOP NOTCH :thumb: !
I plan on pulling the exhaust off tonight, drilling for the probes and trying to get them Tig'd tomorrow. If that goes well I will try to get it back together and out to the dragstrip Friday night. My plan would be to run the Delphi unit that night and set up the VRFI Saturday, get some learning cycles into the unit and take it back to the track that night to compare.
Lofty goals? Yes, it sure is, but I'm going to try!
 
#23 ·
Vrod-tlam said:
Any updates?
Well, things did not quite as planned. I did get the headers re-installed on Friday night and got out to the racetrack while there was still some prctice time left. I made my first run (3rd ever for the bike and me) which was 11.098 @124 and everything felt pretty good. When I was back in the pits letting things cool down a bit, I noticed a puddle of oil under the left rear side of the motor. Closer investagation showed oil all the way down the swingarm and on the wheel... not good. I did have an idea what the problem was, but needless to say, I was not equipted to make the repairs at the track, so that was the end of my night.

The next morning I pulled off the front sprocket cover and sure enough, my suspicion was correct, the leak was coming from around the output flange. It looks like I did not get the flange fully seated on the output splines. Just to be on the safe side, I removed the flange, the inner seal and cover to replace all o-rings and seals. After searching high and low for the seals, I wound up robbing those pieces from a complete gasket set and I was able to get things cleaned up and back together for another trip to the strip.

This time things went much better and after about 8 runs, we (the bike and I) settled into a 10.94-10.97 @ 125-126MPH range. Now with that out of the way I will try to get VRFI system installed tonight and give the system sometime to learn my powerplant. If all goes well I should be out to the track again for some comparison runs this coming Friday and/or Saturday night.
 
#24 ·
A little more update.

The WEGO unit and probe are calibrated and installed. The DELPHI unit has been removed and the VRFI installed in its place (cables are pretty jamed in there). One note, the allen head screws mentioned in the instructions to mount the VRFI unit were not included in my package, but fortunately I had some that would work from the motor when I changed out the hardware to stainless.

I made a few simple edits to the base data files for the bigbore like setting the estmated crank horsepower to 170, raised the rev limit to 9900 and changed the notes to reflect those changes.

With a little extra throttle, the bike started and I was able to release the throttle in a few seconds. I did idle a bit rough until the startup period expired (90 seconds) and the automatic adjustments could start to work. I had left the computer hooked up so I could view the real-time data and it was very cool to see it adjust the injector pulse width to get to the nominal AFR value. I just opened the throttle a bit more to verify that it would make the adjustments at other cell locations as well, which it did.

At that point I shut things down and went to compare the ignition map since I far as I can tell, that it not adjusted automatically. I figure a good starting point for the advance tables would be to use the settings that were used by the Race Tuner and set by the builder of my motor. Then with that set in the VRFI, the AFR correction so be just about right, Right???

Well that all sounded like a good idea to me but I encountered a couple intesting problems with performing that simple advance table copy. First, the RPM steps for the RT are different for that on the VRFI. That was not a big deal as I could interpolate the values for the cells not included on the RT table. A bigger issue is the fact that the RT uses a MAP value from 10-100 in steps of 10 for the other axis of the table, while the VRFI uses 16 to 30 in steps of 2. I'm not sure if there is a direct relation, so I will be calling Chris tomorrow for clarification. Lastly, there is only one advance table that I can see in the VRFI, while the RT has a seperate one for the front and rear cylinders and my RT file does have different values in the front and rear.

That's it for now.