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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here's a question for those that know (and even those that may think they know):

I'm on a 2010 DX that has had nothing done to it. It's out-of-the-box factory. I'm throwing on some VnH Indy Comps and I know I need to get an EFI tuner. In my mind, where the skies are purple and the monkeys fly, it makes sense to put on a tuner that matches the exhaust (or at least is made by the same manufacturer). The only hangup is that after reading all of the "I love its" and "I love it nots" that you get with ANY product, I am not recieving a warm-and-fuzzy on the FuelPak. Should I go with the FuelPak because the pipes are made by VnH? Is there a better quality tuner out there? Does it even matter which brand tuner I get?

Please discuss.

[P.S. I have read millions of opinions. Please quantify WHY you like or dislike a particular tuner. Though I greatly appreciate the fish ya'll are giving me, I am trying to learn to fish on my own. Capice? KKthanksbye.]
 

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AKA:KrammitTheFrodge
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36 Posts
spoke at length with the dyno-saur at worth HD north in KCMO about this very subject. his opinion: for the $$ you're going to spend on ANY tuner and installation / dyno tuning fees, you can buy a harley racepak (quoted me at $456) that leaves NOTHING extra attached to the bike when you're done. it allows the shop to reprogram the stock ECU, rather than what tuners do: confuse the ECU. tuners make the ECU think the bike's in a different gear, load, RPM, etc. the HD unit flashes to your ECU and allows the shop to rewrite your ECU to think correctly for the mods that are done. allegedly they can also adjust speedo calibration for pulley changes, etc. and you only need one tuner, but the catch is HD wrote them to imprint to a specific ECU. the tuner can read any HD ECM, but it can only program the one it imprints (but it can reprogram that ECU an infinite # of times).
if you're going to do it yourself, or have it done somewhere other than a HD stealership, the powercommander is much easier to use. i run a PC-IIIr on my racebike and tune it myself on my laptop in my garage, but that bike isn't intended for street use. thus, i don't care how reliable it is as long as it goes around a race track fast enough to make me tunnel out.
FWIW, i haven't heard anyone say anything nice about the V&H fuelpack that tried to do custom tuning or anything but plug-n-play.
 

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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hm. Good info (and awesome signature quote). Thanks.
 

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AKA:KrammitTheFrodge
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36 Posts
any time bro. i'm too new to not make an active effort to help if i can... trolled quite a while before biting the bullet and "selling out" to HD :)

i still troll on speedzilla.com in the RC51 forums, but since i'm pretty much done modding that beast and trying (passively) to sell it since i can't bend myself into that shape very long anymore...
 

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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So why doesn't the HD USA site offer a tuner for sale under the VRSC family?
 

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962 Posts
everyone has there own veiws on tunners its a complicated subject , and depends on what you want and have far your prepared to go in $$$$ terms to get it set up ?

me i like simple , so have a DX 2008 , with VH comp and VH fueler simple to fit simple to adjust and bike runs great never had a problem , misfire , stalling , or flat spot , pulls good and the VH Fuelpak was half the price of anything else out there at the time , been running it for two years without issue

never needed a map , just e-mail VH tech with your set up and they gave it settings to use when i changed form Remus exhaust to Comp it was simple and runs great !

thats why i like it ! bikes never been on a dyno not bothered.

Other products seem to have there issues (some not all) and you need maps or set up on dyno.

RC51 , SP1 in the UK had one a while back cracking bike , but the R1 i had after this was way better !
 

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IMHO..it all comes down to what you want...are you after more HP and endless mods? then you'll need a programable tuner and a good dyno guy. Are you happy with your bike except for the sound, and look of the stock exhaust? then the VnH is a great way to go.
Love my Fuelpak, wasnt alot of money and does just what I need. if I wanted tons of HP and speed, I wouldve stayed on my CBR1000RR.
I like the low, long, cruisability with enough grunt to move when needed vrod.
I say, if you know what you want, you'll know where and how to spend your money.
Good Luck
 

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Banned
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3,309 Posts
You may not need anything. I just read a fellows post saying that he changed pipes and filter and when they put it on the dyno it was perfect. 109 hp with no adjustments required.

Beyond that, all I can say is read read read. There are several very good options, they range from a hundred bucks to a thousand. I'm cheap and broke, so I went with the hundred dollar option. Well, after I tried the three hundred dollar option and ended up with a bike that drank more gas than my pickup.
 

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Posting From The Pub
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7,850 Posts
It depends on how much you feel like spending, how technically savvy you are, and whether you plan to stop there.

I don't know anything about the V&H Fuelpak.

The other options are:

A SEPST. This is a reprogrammer for the Harley engine management system. It should produce the best results, no add on bits. It will be tied to your bike. There will almost certainly be settings out there for the pipes - you might want to add a free flowing airfilter, and then you have a very common setup. Normally however you would do some dyno work. If you like fiddling, you can mess around yourself afterwards.

A PC-V with Autotune. Fit this, it should take account of your changes and always keep the bike in a perfect state of tune whatever you do. Trouble is, short, low back pressure exhausts confuse the system under deceleration. The V&H is short and low back pressure... (It also has no ground clearance and exits right under your ear - presumably you have considered those factors and decided you don't care). Ask if anyone has used this combo and how they got on. Also, if you like this stuff, you can use the Autotune to set the WOT stuff and fiddle with what it does in the low and midrange to get it how you want it. This is what I like to do...

A PC3 and a map off the forum. You can pick up a second hand PC3 for peanuts, there are maps around here. The maps will be conservative and run rich, so you will waste fule, but the bike will run fine.

A PC3, or a PC5, or a SEPST, and a Daytona TwinTech. The TwinTech logs the gas flow and produces a table you can use to modify your fuel map. Frankly, I like this best, and it is what I do (with a cheap old PC3). But you need to be interested in fuel mapping and like fiddling... You can keep the TwinTech and use it on any modern Harley.
 

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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
IMHO..it all comes down to what you want...are you after more HP and endless mods? then you'll need a programable tuner and a good dyno guy. Are you happy with your bike except for the sound, and look of the stock exhaust? then the VnH is a great way to go.
Love my Fuelpak, wasnt alot of money and does just what I need. if I wanted tons of HP and speed, I wouldve stayed on my CBR1000RR.
I like the low, long, cruisability with enough grunt to move when needed vrod.
I say, if you know what you want, you'll know where and how to spend your money.
Good Luck
Extensive mods are indeed in my future, I believe. The more I read, the more I want. The end state of the bike will probably include a supercharger. Fuel usage is not one of my major concerns, but I also don't want to waste it unnecessarily. My ride has already been the butt of several jokes by other Harley riders at the watering hole, so my pride has been wounded, lmao. I think "ungodly fast" is the term I would like to achieve.
 

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Posting From The Pub
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7,850 Posts
Extensive mods are indeed in my future, I believe. The more I read, the more I want. The end state of the bike will probably include a supercharger. Fuel usage is not one of my major concerns, but I also don't want to waste it unnecessarily. My ride has already been the butt of several jokes by other Harley riders at the watering hole, so my pride has been wounded, lmao. I think "ungodly fast" is the term I would like to achieve.
Well, if the supercharger it is the Rotrex, they use a PCV with Autotune.

Also you seem like an intelligent technically minded person (sorry to be patronising) so the concept of letting Autotune auto tune the cells it can get right and manually correcting the cells that it is bound to get wrong doesn't sound like it is going to challenge you, so I'd get that.

A flexible, easy to use tool that works well and will stand you in good stead for the future. Not ultimately as "good" as a well set up SEPST, but gives you the right choices for later.
 

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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I believe you are right. I am very much leaning towards a PC-V with all of the peripherals. The technical hurdles will actually be a joy to overcome, as I would like to understand my ride inside and out. Surely they can't be as difficult as the electronics on Longbow helicopters (which I repair, but can only tenuously say I comprehend, lmao).
 

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Banned
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3,309 Posts
I believe you are right. I am very much leaning towards a PC-V with all of the peripherals. The technical hurdles will actually be a joy to overcome, as I would like to understand my ride inside and out. Surely they can't be as difficult as the electronics on Longbow helicopters (which I repair, but can only tenuously say I comprehend, lmao).
If you can fix a Longbow, the V-Rod is going to be an evening with a pretty girl.

If the airhead crowd is giving you grief, tell them to put up or shut up, race for pinks. They'll either stop yapping or you'll have a spare bike or two.
 

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The Big Bad Wolf
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301 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
LMAO!! Not a bad idea, but I wanna make sure that I can put up as well. Coupla mods down the road, I may have a nice bagger for the wife.
 

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Posting From The Pub
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7,850 Posts
If you can fix a Longbow, the V-Rod is going to be an evening with a pretty girl.

If the airhead crowd is giving you grief, tell them to put up or shut up, race for pinks. They'll either stop yapping or you'll have a spare bike or two.
:them:
 
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