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Discussion Starter #1
2010 Nightrod Special - current Mods - ThunderMax Computer, Topless K&N, V&H Widow Slipons. Currently dyno-ing at 116HP.

Front head gasket leak since new, finally got me around to getting HD to pull the head under warranty. So I was thinking (a DANGEROUS THING), why not send the heads out (since I'm only paying parts & labor for the rear head), do the cams, destroyer throttle body, injectors, etc.

So I opted to send the heads to Vance & Hines Motorsports for a race port/polish/oversize valves makeover, and also purchased their street cam.

Herein the fun develops...

V&H tells me the cams need to be degree'd in to correct timing for max power gains (and not kill power on the low end)- OK, I understand that part of the equation.

Local HD stealership service department tells me they don't have the "special tool" to do cam degree'ing for the V Rod. No biggie I tell them, order the tool and I'll buy it, then rent it to them when they need it again.

Then they tell me they need to figure out how to FABRICATE a tool, to do this.

What IS the deal here?

IS there a tool(s) I can order to set the cam timing? If so, WHO MAKES IT?

How is cam timing set correctly on the V Rod?

I ordered slotted cam sprockets (actually, sent mine in to V&H to be slotted), but at this point - since V&H tells me they need the whole motor to correctly degree the cams (not happening), and all I get is blank stares from the (so-called) Master Mechanic at HD - I'm currently stuck with having un-slotted sprockets installed on the new cam, set at factory (0) specs.

The only guy doing V Rod performance that I know of here (in S. Fla), I already don't trust because of his rep here in the Corvette community.

Suggestions are most certainly welcome...

Regards,

Rick
 

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Rick:

Sorry about your problems.

If Pat can't help you send me a PM to my email [email protected] I'll put you in touch with a very good Harley Certified mechanic in Orlando that can complete the job. He is an avid V-Rod guy and knows his stuff!!

Regards

Jerry
 

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Rick:

Sorry about your problems.

If Pat can't help you send me a PM to my email [email protected] I'll put you in touch with a very good Harley Certified mechanic in Orlando that can complete the job. He is an avid V-Rod guy and knows his stuff!!

Regards

Jerry
Rick, for your own knowledge, "google" HOW TO DEGREE A CAMSHAFT
At the very least it will give you and idea.You can then narrow down the procedure for example, Vrod, Honda etc. etc. Best of luck Tim
 

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Rick, for your own knowledge, "google" HOW TO DEGREE A CAMSHAFT
At the very least it will give you and idea.You can then narrow down the procedure for example, Vrod, Honda etc. etc. Best of luck Tim
Heading on over to Google isn't required.

There's more than enough V-Rod specific information regarding this subject right here on the Forum. For instance see the thread below.

Given the opportunity the search option right here on the Forum can be very helpful.

http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59379&highlight=degreeing+cams

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think the issue (with the harley mechanic) isn't related to how to degree a camshaft - as much as the toolingl/adapter for mounting the wheel to the crankshaft. They're kinda loathing the idea of breaking the crank bolt loose to mount/unmount directly to it.

I could probably get away with just having V&H press the sprockets onto the new cams in factory/0 position - without risking destroying a new motor (bike is 3,700 miles new) - but after spending the $$ on this setup, it WOULD be nice to have it timed optimally.

OTOH - I'm not averse to throwing the bike on the trailer and hauling a reasonable distance (or even unreasonable) distance to spend a couple of days somewhere, with someone who can do this correctly. Just kinda hate to pay to have the top end torn apart again - when it's already torn down under warranty.

I've done this kind of work myself on EVO's - but obviously Revo's are a whole different animal.

Thanks for the helpful feedback guys.

Regards,

Rick
 

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Another way you can skin this cat would be to return your cams to Vance and Hines and buy the S.E. stage 2 cams from the dealer. They will bolt right up with stock sprockets and you don't have to degree them in.
:deal:
 

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Noel
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Photos from when my buddy Bill did the set up on my Mega Cycles Cams:

Also note that we fabricated mechanical cam chain tensioners to apply load on the chain guides which is very important if your measuring technique involves rolling the crank in reverse!!!!!!





 

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Discussion Starter #9
Another way you can skin this cat would be to return your cams to Vance and Hines and buy the S.E. stage 2 cams from the dealer. They will bolt right up with stock sprockets and you don't have to degree them in.
:deal:
SE II cams put everything up top - and kill the bottom. Better with a bored motor than with a stock 1250 bottom end.

The way it stands right now, I'm having V&H put the stock sprockets on in 0 position, and putting a set of slotted sprockets in the box.

This can go down one of 4 ways...

A - I can find/figure out the proper tool(s) (ie: crankshaft adapter for degree-ing wheel) and HD is comfortable doing the setup - in which case, they can swap the slotted sprockets onto the cams.

B - HD can re-assemble the motor and I'll throw it in my car ands drive it to wherever it needs to go to have the slotted sprockets put on, have it degree'd correctly, bring it back and have HD put it back in the frame.

C - have the whole bike re-assembled with the cams as they come back from V&H, ride it until I'm good and pissed off, then trailer it to wherever it needs to go to be pulled apart AGAIN, and have it degree'd correctly.

D - Leave well enough alone and be happy with the cams at 0.

I'd prefer A, with B being a close 2nd (depending on if HD will let me take the motor).

Jury is still out, have about 10 days before the heads come back from V&H (and the mechanic who started the job comes back from his vacation next week), to arrive at a verdict.

In the meantime, still looking for the proper tooling to go with (A), or the right wrench to perform (B).

Thanks again guys...

Rick
 

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Here is a quick list of tools needed and what I use.

Dial indicator with long thin tip.
Magnetic base
Steel plate fabbed to mount to the cam cover screws as a base for the dial indicator
Degree wheel attached to stator rotor
Fixed chain tensioners to allow engine to be rotated both directions
Pointer fixed to engine case to read degree wheel

What are the specs on your cams? Not the 450ish ones are they?
 

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I think the issue (with the harley mechanic) isn't related to how to degree a camshaft - as much as the toolingl/adapter for mounting the wheel to the crankshaft. They're kinda loathing the idea of breaking the crank bolt loose to mount/unmount directly to it.

I could probably get away with just having V&H press the sprockets onto the new cams in factory/0 position - without risking destroying a new motor (bike is 3,700 miles new) - but after spending the $$ on this setup, it WOULD be nice to have it timed optimally.

OTOH - I'm not averse to throwing the bike on the trailer and hauling a reasonable distance (or even unreasonable) distance to spend a couple of days somewhere, with someone who can do this correctly. Just kinda hate to pay to have the top end torn apart again - when it's already torn down under warranty.

I've done this kind of work myself on EVO's - but obviously Revo's are a whole different animal.

Thanks for the helpful feedback guys.

Regards,

Rick
Rick:

I have a call in to my guy for you. I'm betting I won't hear from him until next week though. That's because he will be up in Valdosta, GA with Pat, Rich, Chaz Kennnedy --etc racing.

You need to call in sick, load the bike and motor up and go to the races. I'll bet you come home with the motor ready to button up and ride since there is a lot of downtime between runs.

I'll write the note for you.

Regards

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As it turns out, I'm gonna end up going with plan C (or even D)

HD dealer is (understandably) reluctant to give me a motor to take to someone else, have them do the cams, bring it back to them to do the install - and then be responsible for any negative outcome. The mechanic(s) there have never degree'd a VROD cam, and I'm none to excited about being their first either.

So, the motor goes back together with new cam at factory timing. I'll likely not pay to pull the motor again, until something else breaks, or I'm ready to bore the thing out, (or unless I'm feeling bored and bold one weekend and decide to yank it out myself :chair: ).

These are the .462/.435 V&H Street cams going in, and should provide decent balance of an enhanced top end, without sacrificing too much on the bottom side.

Regards,

Rick
 

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Vendor
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Degreeing cams sucks! Thank the Lord for Stage 2 cams! HA
 

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OK, stupid question time for me. Note! I haven't been into one of these engines yet.

If the cams don't degree as spec'd what do you use to reset them? Are the cams keyed to the gears like an automobile?
 

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Noel
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Degreeing only applies to non HD cams.

Slotting the non-key sprokets allows one adjust the degrees
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The NEVER ENDING STORY here...

Okay - so I get a call from Vance & Hines today - they're supposed to install their street cams into my factory sprockets @ 0 timing. Turns out my FACTORY SPROCKETS ARE SLOTTED - albiet small ones - but enough so that, V&H doesn't want to take responsibility for the cam timing being wrong - which I understand PERFECTLY.

So...

Doing what was suggested IN THE FIRST PLACE - ordered the SEII Cam Kit from Hales (20% off list every day on everything - talk to Jim ext: 228) - they'll be here Friday.

Heads will be back fro, V&H Friday. Destroyer 58mm throttle body & injectors - here already. AlloyBoltz show polished stainless EVERYTHING - here already. Ceramic coated headers/exhaust - pick up Friday. Heat shields back from powdercoating.

Bike goes back together tuesday. Making an appointment with a friend to use his dyno (thundermax with autotune already installed) in a week or two, just in case the base map & autotune doesn't compensate correctly for the mods.

The SEII cams are going to shift my power band a little higher than I preferred - but I'm not paying to pull the motor and put cams that require degreeing - AGAIN. I'll do that when I get the jones for more power and bigbore the sucker (probably next year sometime).

The whole impetus for doing this upgrade NOW, was the leaky head gasket, and TheMoCo paying for the motor R&R. Essentially I'm only paying for the cam install & R&R of the rear head - cutting my labor costs significantly.

What a PITA the Revolution motor turned out to be. I could have done 99% of this myself on an Evo or TC.

Dyno'd at 116HP with topless, K&N, V&H Widow Slip-ons and Thundermax (550 map with autotune). It'll be interesting to see what I end up with after all this is done. Anticipating 125-130 (praying for might be the better description).

Thanks again for all the suggestions & input.

Regards,

(Sick) Rick
 

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I like to degree my cams with Dale on the other end of the phone :)
 

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What a PITA the Revolution motor turned out to be. I could have done 99% of this myself on an Evo or TC.

Dyno'd at 116HP with topless, K&N, V&H Widow Slip-ons and Thundermax (550 map with autotune). It'll be interesting to see what I end up with after all this is done. Anticipating 125-130 (praying for might be the better description).
You can probably do 99% of the work on your revolution motor yourself once you dive into it. I don't think you will have any problem getting the horsepower you are looking for with the mods you have made. Just make sure the dealer takes their time setting the valve clearance. How are you going to tune the beast once it's back together?
 
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