[Makinnoyz1]

Hey Folks! So a lot of you have followed my previous thread on my 2012 10th Anniversary (Nitrous drag Bike: The Quest for 6s) Linked below:

Nitrous drag bike build: The Quest for 6s!

Well, well, well. What do we have here? This unit should really help dial the bike in :) Huge thanks to my good buddy Scott Fitzgerald of Fitzgerald motorsports for the smoking deal on this dyno! Im on cloud nine, never in a million years did I ever imagine that i would be able to afford my own...

www.1130cc.com

We made some amazing progress and numbers on that setup, and I couldn't be prouder! But its time to change directions. After purchasing my own dyno from Scott Fitzgerald of Fitzgerald Motorsports, I have decided it is time to switch this bike over to a turbo setup. I have already started gathering the parts to make the switch. Thus far I have acquired:
Turbo: GT2871r
Fuel: Walbro 255 in tank, 1000cc decapped LS L59 flex fuel injectors (dunno if they will fit yet)
Tuning: Will be tuned with my existing SESTP (orange box)
Hotside: Starting on the fabrication of that next weekend
Intercooler and plenum: NEED SUGGESTIONS

That's the basic start for now. Lets talk goals. The goal is simple, to make the power im currently making on nitrous (175hp/135tq) on boost. The bike has over 67k miles on a bone stock engine, and she's never even had the valve covers off. She's been a trooper to say the least. She's made that kind power for over three race seasons without a hiccup. It was the fastest bike at MWT in 2021 and second this year, both years placed third in the dyno shootout. This engine owes me nothing. The plan is to push this unit until failure and then upgrade. so far the mods list that it will have after the turbo swap includes.

Fitzgerald billet clutch basket, Barnett 11 plate clutch
Pingel Air shifter and kill box
Pingel wheelie bar
Innovate LC2 Wideband
And that's it

So y'all come along for the ride, I'm hoping to be able to make solid progress on this thing in the next couple of months. Stay tuned!

 

[Nordic Black]

That is a great project you have! Nice power on nitrous, but why not to keep them both? Turbo with shot of nitrous? Nitrous acts as a power adder for sure, but also acts as an effective charge cooler too.
After all, the intercooler will be quite small on a MC application , so little extra cooling will not hurt. Neither the extra bang from N2O

 

[Makinnoyz1]

That is a great project you have! Nice power on nitrous, but why not to keep them both? Turbo with shot of nitrous? Nitrous acts as a power adder for sure, but also acts as an effective charge cooler too.
After all, the intercooler will be quite small on a MC application , so little extra cooling will not hurt. Neither the extra bang from N2O

I totally get what you are saying, but there is so much stuff electronics wise on this nitrous setup, that I really wouldn't have room for all of it and the plenum under the airbox cover. Plus one of the reasons I am going turbo is to eliminate the need to fill nitrous bottles at the track (I have my own fill station) which would greatly reduce the amount of clutter in my race trailer as well. Not a terrible idea though!

 

[streetrodracer]

After all, the intercooler will be quite small on a MC application

Makinnoyz1- My suggestion is stay away from the small sideways intercooler setup similar to what Trask uses and go with a full frontal intercooler mounted in front of the radiator like mukle did on his Mad Scientist Revo Power R Model. If you have a dedicated race bike it will lower IAT by quite a bit and help produce big repeatable power - if you street ride and have any concern for looks you can always build some custom shrouds later. You ought to read mukle's entire thread ( if you haven't already ) for some serious pointers, and help get you on the right track.

 

[freudie1]

Hey Folks! So a lot of you have followed my previous thread on my 2012 10th Anniversary (Nitrous drag Bike: The Quest for 6s) Linked below:

Nitrous drag bike build: The Quest for 6s!

Well, well, well. What do we have here? This unit should really help dial the bike in :) Huge thanks to my good buddy Scott Fitzgerald of Fitzgerald motorsports for the smoking deal on this dyno! Im on cloud nine, never in a million years did I ever imagine that i would be able to afford my own...

www.1130cc.com

We made some amazing progress and numbers on that setup, and I couldn't be prouder! But its time to change directions. After purchasing my own dyno from Scott Fitzgerald of Fitzgerald Motorsports, I have decided it is time to switch this bike over to a turbo setup. I have already started gathering the parts to make the switch. Thus far I have acquired:
Turbo: GT2871r
Fuel: Walbro 255 in tank, 1000cc decapped LS L59 flex fuel injectors (dunno if they will fit yet)
Tuning: Will be tuned with my existing SESTP (orange box)
Hotside: Starting on the fabrication of that next weekend
Intercooler and plenum: NEED SUGGESTIONS

That's the basic start for now. Lets talk goals. The goal is simple, to make the power im currently making on nitrous (175hp/135tq) on boost. The bike has over 67k miles on a bone stock engine, and she's never even had the valve covers off. She's been a trooper to say the least. She's made that kind power for over three race seasons without a hiccup. It was the fastest bike at MWT in 2021 and second this year, both years placed third in the dyno shootout. This engine owes me nothing. The plan is to push this unit until failure and then upgrade. so far the mods list that it will have after the turbo swap includes.

Fitzgerald billet clutch basket, Barnett 11 plate clutch
Pingel Air shifter and kill box
Pingel wheelie bar
Innovate LC2 Wideband
And that's it

So y'all come along for the ride, I'm hoping to be able to make solid progress on this thing in the next couple of months. Stay tuned!

Here goes:

SESPT: Unless you are familiar with the concept of table scaling AND several other "fun" limits of the Delphi ECU you aren't going to have a good time (SESPT = tuning stock ECU). Also, IF possible I'd abort the SESPT and go the PowerVision route for numerous reasons.

Injectors: No need for anything that huge (and they won't fit). Look for the IWP injectors: IWP189 (NOTE: These are extremely hard to find genuine...TONS of counterfeit injectors out there as this is popular....last thing you want is a Chinesium injector!).

Fuel pressure regulator: Look for the Bosch 5 bar FPR (sometimes called the "mini 5"). This is ALSO highly counterfeited (or worse a smaller regulator that is crushed a bit). Expect to pay approximately $200 for a genuine one (they are popular in the Porsche world).

Fuel pump: Read my thread about the fuel pump rewire (critical!) AND the easy modification for the bypass valve!

Intercooler: Think outside the box. There are many ideas out there for more efficient charge cooling, even on a motorcycle. I am NOT a fan of air to air, especially on a drag application. You CAN (and should) explore the world of air to water.

Timing: Keep it very conservative if you don't have a way to utilize knock detection. Ash trays are very possible.

Boost control: I would stay under 10 PSI based on your engine description/etc. ESPECIALLY if you are scaling tables in the stock ECU (you can theoretically get up to 14 psi with scaling, but until you get the hang of it, I'd keep boost very low to verify your tuning = what you expect.

Plenum: Unless you are friendly with CAD design, CNC manufacturing...your only options are the cheesy Trask plenum (looks like it's made out of Budweiser cans) OR possibly one of the units from our Norwegian friends on the forum (no idea if they still sell theirs). Due to the shape of the throttle body I wouldn't advise sheet metal/weld method as to my knowledge no one makes flanges for making DIY plenums (I COULD offer such a thing, but you wouldn't like the price...would be better off just buying an entire plenum).

IAT sensor: The stock IAT sensor is not a "fast" sensor. It will provide garbage data as it won't react to the charge temp deltas fast enough. There are several IAT sensors out there that fit our bike and are "close enough" voltage to value wise!

MAP sensor: Another fun area of counterfeiting. You want to use (IF you are using the Delphi ECU at this point) the 3 bar LS style GM map sensor. You will have to hunt (I bought mine from an actual dealership as the majority of these online are Chinese and fake) for this. This is the part# you want: 213-1631. Also fun, they don't come with the nipple gasket (no laughing). I have a lifetime supply of these from Jegs (you will see why when you try to remove the original gasket!).

Holding your head yet? This is one of the more complicated platforms to work on due to the weird mishmash of manufacturers and space constraints it presents. At least HD went with GM/Delphi for the majority so that is fairly easy to source...just keep it real, not counterfeit. I have had nightmares with fake parts.

Full disclosure: I am infinitely more skilled in the tuning and electronics side of this game. When it comes to pistons/rings/cranks/bearings/clearances/etc I typically defer to experts (read: machine shops with Revo experience). However (as I'm sure you do too), I treat all machines shops like the CIA: Trust but verify.

Still a crying shame HD used such a low end ECU for this bike. If they used something a bit more automotive we would have no need for anything aftermarket. I still maintain under 14 psi you CAN have your cake and eat it too, but once again you need to get real comfy with scaling and a few other limitations of the Delphi unit (I have many posts about this). Don't let certain shops tell you you MUST use aftermarket ECUs for your project. That's not true and there are many examples on the web proving this wrong (in fact some of the few that can NOT use the stock ecu "live" on this forum....think 20+ psi mad scientists).

P.S. Don't ignore the infamous triple sprocket bolt. If that let's loose all bets are off the table regardless of money and tuning.

Haven't even touched the topic of data logging versus display (and I put more emphasis on logging versus display as you aren't going to have enough time to really "see" anything during a drag run beyond the "Oh shit" moment).

 

[Makinnoyz1]

Here goes:

SESPT: Unless you are familiar with the concept of table scaling AND several other "fun" limits of the Delphi ECU you aren't going to have a good time (SESPT = tuning stock ECU). Also, IF possible I'd abort the SESPT and go the PowerVision route for numerous reasons.

Injectors: No need for anything that huge (and they won't fit). Look for the IWP injectors: IWP189 (NOTE: These are extremely hard to find genuine...TONS of counterfeit injectors out there as this is popular....last thing you want is a Chinesium injector!).

Fuel pressure regulator: Look for the Bosch 5 bar FPR (sometimes called the "mini 5"). This is ALSO highly counterfeited (or worse a smaller regulator that is crushed a bit). Expect to pay approximately $200 for a genuine one (they are popular in the Porsche world).

Fuel pump: Read my thread about the fuel pump rewire (critical!) AND the easy modification for the bypass valve!

Intercooler: Think outside the box. There are many ideas out there for more efficient charge cooling, even on a motorcycle. I am NOT a fan of air to air, especially on a drag application. You CAN (and should) explore the world of air to water.

Timing: Keep it very conservative if you don't have a way to utilize knock detection. Ash trays are very possible.

Boost control: I would stay under 10 PSI based on your engine description/etc. ESPECIALLY if you are scaling tables in the stock ECU (you can theoretically get up to 14 psi with scaling, but until you get the hang of it, I'd keep boost very low to verify your tuning = what you expect.

Plenum: Unless you are friendly with CAD design, CNC manufacturing...your only options are the cheesy Trask plenum (looks like it's made out of Budweiser cans) OR possibly one of the units from our Norwegian friends on the forum (no idea if they still sell theirs). Due to the shape of the throttle body I wouldn't advise sheet metal/weld method as to my knowledge no one makes flanges for making DIY plenums (I COULD offer such a thing, but you wouldn't like the price...would be better off just buying an entire plenum).

IAT sensor: The stock IAT sensor is not a "fast" sensor. It will provide garbage data as it won't react to the charge temp deltas fast enough. There are several IAT sensors out there that fit our bike and are "close enough" voltage to value wise!

MAP sensor: Another fun area of counterfeiting. You want to use (IF you are using the Delphi ECU at this point) the 3 bar LS style GM map sensor. You will have to hunt (I bought mine from an actual dealership as the majority of these online are Chinese and fake) for this. This is the part# you want: 213-1631. Also fun, they don't come with the nipple gasket (no laughing). I have a lifetime supply of these from Jegs (you will see why when you try to remove the original gasket!).

Holding your head yet? This is one of the more complicated platforms to work on due to the weird mishmash of manufacturers and space constraints it presents. At least HD went with GM/Delphi for the majority so that is fairly easy to source...just keep it real, not counterfeit. I have had nightmares with fake parts.

Full disclosure: I am infinitely more skilled in the tuning and electronics side of this game. When it comes to pistons/rings/cranks/bearings/clearances/etc I typically defer to experts (read: machine shops with Revo experience). However (as I'm sure you do too), I treat all machines shops like the CIA: Trust but verify.

Still a crying shame HD used such a low end ECU for this bike. If they used something a bit more automotive we would have no need for anything aftermarket. I still maintain under 14 psi you CAN have your cake and eat it too, but once again you need to get real comfy with scaling and a few other limitations of the Delphi unit (I have many posts about this). Don't let certain shops tell you you MUST use aftermarket ECUs for your project. That's not true and there are many examples on the web proving this wrong (in fact some of the few that can NOT use the stock ecu "live" on this forum....think 20+ psi mad scientists).

P.S. Don't ignore the infamous triple sprocket bolt. If that let's loose all bets are off the table regardless of money and tuning.

Haven't even touched the topic of data logging versus display (and I put more emphasis on logging versus display as you aren't going to have enough time to really "see" anything during a drag run beyond the "Oh shit" moment).

Sheesh, lot to unpack here. First of all, yes I’m very familiar with scaling. I’m sticking with the SESTP. Second, the injectors DO fit they are literally already in the bike and running, and I went that big because it’s running on e85. Third, I’m literally a machinist by trade, and I’m working on cnc milling a plenum, as I’ve figured out none are available. I won’t be running an air to air, or an air to water, I’ve decided to go with water/meth injection. I got this, I’m not even asking for suggestions other than the inter cooled and plenum and I’ve got those sorted. This isn’t open to discussion, this thread is to serve as documenting of what I’m already doing. As I remember you tried to talk me out of everything in the last thread and I did it my way and look how that worked out? These aren’t complicated bikes, none of this is hard 😂😂

 

[sburke91]

(Interesting that my post was mysteriously edited, with no comment that it was--thanks to whoever decided they needed to editorialize me. I've fixed it so the entire post is no longer a link to someone's profile)

At this stage of the game with the V-rod, it's a lot of fun to watch someone pushing the envelope in a direction that's not the norm. As someone who's tuned a V-Rod (NA and Nitrous) on just about every ECU available for the bike,@Makinnoyz1is definitely choosing one of the more difficult paths to go on, but that's what makes it fun.

 

[Makinnoyz1]

At this stage of the game with the V-rod, it's a lot of fun to watch someone pushing the envelope in a direction that's not the norm. As someone who's tuned a V-Rod (NA and Nitrous) on just about every ECU available for the bike,@Makinnoyz1is definitely choosing one of the more difficult paths to go on, but that's what makes it fun.

Exactly! Just because it’s more difficult to do, doesn’t exactly mean it’s not the right way to do it. With all of my projects outside of this bike, everyone should know by now if you tell me I can’t/shouldn’t do something, that’s exactly what I’m going to do!

 

[johnr204]

Wow....
I wish you luck.
Yes, please keep us posted. Personally, im very interested in the "how" (when successful) you tuned it. I'm in no way saying or suggesting it can't be done. I'm just curious.
I'm running a TTS SC at 6psi boost. Modified TTS / delphi ECM tune with a PCV5 / autotune. So yeah, im quite interested. Tuned "street" (no dyno) and after 3 seasons and a ton of tinkering / fixing numerous issues with ..... basically everything, the tune is stable (if it's wandering, something wrong) and is quite fun to ride. This season haven't even got the streetglide out.....
Have fun, good luck, and please, keep us posted.

Also, im QUITE interested in what you come up with for intercooler. My performance drops at or near 110 IAT. HUGE difference.... JS

John

 

[streetrodracer]

If he's running E85 it has a natural cooling effect to counteract high IAT. Just like Karzza & mukle's bikes 300 Bhp with intercoolers but no ADI that I'm aware of. Now no intercooler ? Probably ADI is a good idea to make up for lack of an intercooler. Not sure which is better but as mentioned an air to water intercooler may be better or just go big frontal air to air intercooler with manual switch on oversize fans to pre cool rad & intercooler prior to launch. You have to reject the FI heat somehow - whatever matches the application, in this case drag race - build heat, do a burnout, build more heat, reject heat in 45 seconds, launch, full power for 8-10 seconds or so then a cool down. Whatever works best in those conditions is what you do.

 

[Makinnoyz1]

Wow....
I wish you luck.
Yes, please keep us posted. Personally, im very interested in the "how" (when successful) you tuned it. I'm in no way saying or suggesting it can't be done. I'm just curious.
I'm running a TTS SC at 6psi boost. Modified TTS / delphi ECM tune with a PCV5 / autotune. So yeah, im quite interested. Tuned "street" (no dyno) and after 3 seasons and a ton of tinkering / fixing numerous issues with ..... basically everything, the tune is stable (if it's wandering, something wrong) and is quite fun to ride. This season haven't even got the streetglide out.....
Have fun, good luck, and please, keep us posted.

Also, im QUITE interested in what you come up with for intercooler. My performance drops at or near 110 IAT. HUGE difference.... JS

John

Yessir I’ll def keep you updated. On the intercooler I’m going to be running water/methanol injection. The reason that your performance drops off at 110 is because timing starts getting pulled at 110* IAT. That can be tuned out but def not advised because of the likelihood of knock. Tuning isn’t that hard, I already started working on the tune last night (just rescaling the map sensor for the new gm 2 bar and making a base map) and it looks like it’s gonna be fairly simple. I am luck enough to have the dyno, makes tuning this unit a breeze.

 

[Karzza]

When You are using 2bar MAP w Delphi the barometer sample goes wrong. You can not scale barometer, which is an issue.

 

[Makinnoyz1]

When You are using 2bar MAP w Delphi the barometer sample goes wrong. You can not scale barometer, which is an issue.

what’s the workaround for that?

 

[freudie1]

When You are using 2bar MAP w Delphi the barometer sample goes wrong. You can not scale barometer, which is an issue.

There is a work around for that.

 

[Makinnoyz1]

 

[Makinnoyz1]

@Karzza do you happen to have the P/N for the Bosch boost referenced fuel pressure that I need? I know you had a lot of dealings with that unit in the past

 

[Karzza]

https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/downloads/Raceparts/Resources/pdf/Data%20Sheet_68021003_Fuel_Pressure_Regulator_Mini_5.pdf

 

[Makinnoyz1]

https://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/downloads/Raceparts/Resources/pdf/Data%20Sheet_68021003_Fuel_Pressure_Regulator_Mini_5.pdf

Thank you sir! Man they are proud of that thing arent they? only place I can even find it has it listed for $277

 

[Makinnoyz1]

So i got to looking at the stock exhaust pipes that i plan on using for the start of the hotside of the exhaust, and I remembered that the part that connects the pipe to the heads do no have the flanges on them and i need to get some new ones. Does anyone know where to get new ones?

 

[frogman_h2o]

Ronnie's Harley-Davidson | EXHAUST SYSTEM (onlinemicrofiche.com)

Just received 2 orders from them, took a while and had to call and rattle their chain. But, they are still shipping parts out........