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Yeah sure but making wise decisions and proper budgets it will help.
i know back when i got my 2003 i went crazy on e-bay buying stuff but there was alot of things i want and there were in range of my budget --i got a set of wheels for my v rod and i was only looking for a front wheel when i found a set foe 150.00 to inculde shiipping --but as time went on the price of stuff went up --but there is still good deals out there ya just have to look hard
 

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I'll hafta talk to the race tech at Gowanda Harley-Davidson. They did my Cthulhu engine build in 2018. But I am going to try to do this Evil Twin build myself. I want the experience. I don't have a press that would be able to do what you are saying. Maybe they do?
The rods would need to be custom to do that pressed pin arrangement , so not really practical in this case. Curious, what oil pump did you decide to use, 4 or 8 lobe?
Ron
 

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Two 2003 VRSCA's: CTHULHU is Black/Sterling, N/A ; EVIL TWIN is Anodized and S/C
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
On my Cthulhu build I still have the stock oil pump. I actually haven't heard anything about aftermarket oil pumps. Do you have a link to something I should be considering for my Evil Twin S/C build? I'm curious, too!

-Sean
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
OK so here's my revised build sheet for the 2003 VRSCA I'll call Evil Twin that I bought in September. This is reflecting some changes made due to my budget and parts availability. I've been trying to buy up some of the more rare items first and hoping the rest is still around when I can get to it. This doesn't reflect specialty tools I've had to buy and will still have to source. I've been putting off the Fitzgerald Motorsports parts buys because he's told me that he "will be doing this for a long time". I'm going for a new Miller Multi-Process welder next Saturday and have accumulated the metal I need to build my engine cradle/stand based off the design rbabos provided me. Thanks again, Ron! I'll post pics of it when I'm done. I've left room for a vacation in August to go charter fishing. I intended to get the exhaust almost last, but a deal came up on a V&H so I had to get it now. So, with everything in mind, I've pushed off my build date to next winter. The Dyno run will occur after the snow clears and I'm able to run the bike to break it in first. I'll keep things posted.

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On my Cthulhu build I still have the stock oil pump. I actually haven't heard anything about aftermarket oil pumps. Do you have a link to something I should be considering for my Evil Twin S/C build? I'm curious, too!

-Sean
You have the early high pressure oil pump now. For me, the jury is still out as to which is better. Early pumps suffered from cavitation in the 7500 rpm range. Late model lower pressure pumps don't , that I'm aware of but was the change done for this reason or to get a couple more ponies out of the 1250cc? Me, I like the higher output pump but one cavitation event can take out the rod bearings. For me, jury still out on which I'd go with for racing. All I know is , only having used the later 4 lobe pump, while the operational pressures on hot oil is fine, nominal 60-65psi over 2k, the hot oil idle psi with oil temps over 200, it can be in the 20s. General riding usual oil temp is around 30psi idle in around the 190 temp range. City traffic and multiple fan cycles sends the oil temp over 200. Coolant temp and oil temps follow quite closely.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Early pumps suffered from cavitation in the 7500 rpm range. Late model lower pressure pumps don't...the later 4 lobe pump, while the operational pressures on hot oil is fine, nominal 60-65psi over 2k, the hot oil idle psi with oil temps over 200, it can be in the 20s.
Ron does the "7500 range" include RPMs starting at 7500 and increasing to everything above? I wonder if that 7500 RPM range isn't hit for just a moment in each gear during a racing event, while idling and waiting for the race to start, from pit to tree might be a more important time to maintain a higher oil pressure and keep a cooler engine? I'm not versed on the PCV yet but I know that on Cthulhu where I'm running a T-Max I can set my fans to come on at a lower temp. This is useful in the staging area because I have to be race ready but someone ahead of me could suddenly have an issue, causing a delay, and it might take a few before I decide it's best to just shut it off for the wait.

There's this fuggin' guy in a piece of sh!t Mustang (not that I have anything against Mustangs), who's class order is just ahead of the bikers and he'd blown that [email protected] thing up 3 times this last summer. The first time it happened every fluid imaginable ended up down the strip and we were stuck in the staging area, backed up by racers continuing to stage (because nobody quite knew what happened yet...I think even the track staff were in shock) and it took over 3 hours to clean it up. The dragway stayed open an extra hour to try to salvage the night but everyone was soooo pissed! I couldn't believe it when 2 weeks later he did it again. Then a third time a month later. Not quite as badly but all over the launch pad that time. I was in the front of the staging line at his third last mistake and he had this big (perhaps uncomfortable) grin on his face with his door open so he could look backwards as he steered and his pit crew pushed him back and through the burn-out pit with his differential dripping out it's last. Everybody was saying he was running his burn-out way too long and I inferred from those comments that he might be doing some preliminary damage just before the launch that his build simply couldn't handle.

Empire Dragway is a very family-oriented place and there is a strict rule of no badmouthing, sh!t-talking, or gambling. So racers were sort of holding their tongues but still, the palpable -anger- of having to wait all night when you might only have that one night (Test n Tune) to get ready for the EVENT...!

But I digress...idling...that was the point of the story...idling, while waiting.
 

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On my Cthulhu build I still have the stock oil pump. I actually haven't heard anything about aftermarket oil pumps. Do you have a link to something I should be considering for my Evil Twin S/C build? I'm curious, too!
If you need to raise oil pressure it can be done by shimming the bypass spring more. I use 72-87 psi when the engine cold. Might be wise to start using 25-30psi oli pressure switch too. With the stock switch engine is probably gone if you see it flickering.
 

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Ron does the "7500 range" include RPMs starting at 7500 and increasing to everything above? I wonder if that 7500 RPM range isn't hit for just a moment in each gear during a racing event, while idling and waiting for the race to start, from pit to tree might be a more important time to maintain a higher oil pressure and keep a cooler engine? I'm not versed on the PCV yet but I know that on Cthulhu where I'm running a T-Max I can set my fans to come on at a lower temp. This is useful in the staging area because I have to be race ready but someone ahead of me could suddenly have an issue, causing a delay, and it might take a few before I decide it's best to just shut it off for the wait.

There's this fuggin' guy in a piece of sh!t Mustang (not that I have anything against Mustangs), who's class order is just ahead of the bikers and he'd blown that [email protected] thing up 3 times this last summer. The first time it happened every fluid imaginable ended up down the strip and we were stuck in the staging area, backed up by racers continuing to stage (because nobody quite knew what happened yet...I think even the track staff were in shock) and it took over 3 hours to clean it up. The dragway stayed open an extra hour to try to salvage the night but everyone was soooo pissed! I couldn't believe it when 2 weeks later he did it again. Then a third time a month later. Not quite as badly but all over the launch pad that time. I was in the front of the staging line at his third last mistake and he had this big (perhaps uncomfortable) grin on his face with his door open so he could look backwards as he steered and his pit crew pushed him back and through the burn-out pit with his differential dripping out it's last. Everybody was saying he was running his burn-out way too long and I inferred from those comments that he might be doing some preliminary damage just before the launch that his build simply couldn't handle.

Empire Dragway is a very family-oriented place and there is a strict rule of no badmouthing, sh!t-talking, or gambling. So racers were sort of holding their tongues but still, the palpable -anger- of having to wait all night when you might only have that one night (Test n Tune) to get ready for the EVENT...!

But I digress...idling...that was the point of the story...idling, while waiting.
7500 is just a number I've read a couple of times.Take it as a nominal figure as it can be below or higher if it happens. . As for the fans, I suspect you can toggle them to ground to come on as desired. Normally, the ECM takes temp into account and then sends a ground to the relay to start fans and drops the grounding when the temp drops to 208*. Some more knowledgeable in electrical might answer this better but I see no reason one can't add a wire from the relay ground, run through a simple toggles switch and direct to ground. In theory, fans would still function normally via the ECM per temp start/stop but would allow you to keep them on full time also below the standard 217* fan start temp. I don't know if codes will be thrown, hence, chime in from experts on this idea would be good, if this method is possible.
Ron
 

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In DTT you can choose freely the temp when the fan starts. I have not inspected the hysteresis when it stops.
 

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7500 is just a number I've read a couple of times.Take it as a nominal figure as it can be below or higher if it happens. . As for the fans, I suspect you can toggle them to ground to come on as desired. Normally, the ECM takes temp into account and then sends a ground to the relay to start fans and drops the grounding when the temp drops to 208*. Some more knowledgeable in electrical might answer this better but I see no reason one can't add a wire from the relay ground, run through a simple toggles switch and direct to ground. In theory, fans would still function normally via the ECM per temp start/stop but would allow you to keep them on full time also below the standard 217* fan start temp. I don't know if codes will be thrown, hence, chime in from experts on this idea would be good, if this method is possible.
Ron
If I remember rightly Frank (BAD V-R) on this forum was selling a little setup that did exactly this. I think it was a toggle switch and a couple of other components all wired ready to fit. Not sure if he still does them.
 

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Vreelands sells that race fan switch setup as well, heard it works great. My opinion ( as stated many times here, so sorry for it again ) on the oil pumps has been the older 8 lobe pump is a better made pump and H-D cheaped out on the newer 4 lobe pumps to save money, ( i.e. increase profits ). Just look at the two pumps and you can see the difference, night & day. I noticed I had some slow start up oil pressure and a little noise at startup so I removed the disposable oil filter and put a K & P 35 micron stainless steel cleanable and re-useable oil filter, now I have no more concerns, oil light goes out immediately, no noise with an older style pump. I think the newer 4 lobe pump with a K & P would have more low Rpm oil pressure than with a disposable filter and a greater margin for high Rpm oil pump stall and be fine, but I don't think the older 8 lobe pump has any high Rpm stall either when you remove the restriction to flow of the oil filter and replace it with a free flowing SS mesh filter. Remember the stall point on any fluid pump is a combination of many design factors, but with all else equal increased output backpressure can cause a lower Rpm fluid pump stall. My personal feeling is the best setup would be a large 15 -20 micron filter with a 15 -20 micron filter on the bypass circuit, ( like top end diesel engines ) using an 8 lobe oil Revo oil pump. So that's not going to happen on a V Rod - yet - next is a 35 micron SS filter that simply doesn't bypass, ( unless it's full of metal, if so it's all over anyway ) so full oil volume output at all times. Last is a spin on disposable filter built in CHINA with unknown quality, bypass spring pressure, bypass seal tightness or filter media quality or glue adhesion. But it's chromed, like anyone will notice that down in there, or engine oil pressure will be better with it chromed. No. Put the chrome cost into a better filter, & thanks anyway I don't need disposable filters that have to be cut open to inspect for debris - just give me a K & P Engineering or equivalent SS mesh oil filter, & it's all good IMHO. (y):cool:
 

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When there is not other measurable facts available I choose mine pump by this. Sometimes flipping the coin is another but this time I do not have to.

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Old pump is almost twice heavier than the new one 1123gr vs 672gr (2.47lb vs 1.48lb). At least I have not had any problems with the new one after I blue printed it properly. I ground the lobe parts to tighter specs and milled the casing just in case. It is in great shape still.

Also rotational masses are somewhat smaller and hp gain is perhaps margin compared to pumping forces.
 

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When there is not other measurable facts available I choose mine pump by this. Sometimes flipping the coin is another but this time I do not have to.

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Old pump is almost twice heavier than the new one 1123gr vs 672gr (2.47lb vs 1.48lb). At least I have not had any problems with the new one after I blue printed it properly. I ground the lobe parts to tighter specs and milled the casing just in case. It is in great shape still.

Also rotational masses are somewhat smaller and hp gain is perhaps margin compared to pumping forces.
Curious on what machining tolerances you came up for end play and what was the starting clearance? Just about any pump can use some refinements and this is no exception. As you know, there are the old claims of 10psi per 1k rpm. Somewhat unrealistic and by no means gospel. Generally running more then 70 psi on plain bearings has issues as well. Frictional heat being driving the oil temp up is one side effect and even erosion further up the psi scale. Bottom line, if a 4 lobe is in good shape, it's capable of plenty of pressure in the 60-70 hot oil range and can skirt that possible cavitation issue of the early pump design.
Ron
 

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I end up 0.002" clearance or little less just by shaking my sleeve. Pump was working ok before this but I wanted to make it perfect and I think I succeeded here since zero oil pressure issues with current build. I raised the pressure to approx. 87psi cold in the same time. Hot idle is little bit more than 30psi. I had oil gauge few days with in the start.

I tend to make inspection for all critical components and if I found something I will fix them before thinking too much. Most of the time this has been successful approach.


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Here is onboard gauges for the initial break in. There is one for oil and other for fuel pressure. Turbo is the old small Garrett there.

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Cool. I've always wondered if the 4 lobe would drop psi on a turbo lube requirement but I guess it's not an issue. Nice (grinding) machining.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
I managed to dig up some older posts concerning TTS and installation. This is invaluable information for my EVIL TWIN build...I'll link them here:



Thank you to rbabos for the post linking the original thread by Cabeca De Ferro with some insight by CPTJAM.

Cabeca De Ferro: "I'm not worthy"! Your aluminum air filter element cover is in of itself a very nice touch. Then!...That custom aluminum plenum skin with the gauges set right into it...no words can describe such a perfect thing of beauty! I'm drooling over the photos! How...the hell...did you make that? I've never worked with aluminum except to weld it. And I mean, like angle iron...simple stuff... That whole thing looks like it was cast that way! If you are still on here I'd like to say NICE JOB, PERFECTION, and I'M IN AWE! Never seen anything like it outside of, like, carbon fiber or plastic. And thank you for all the detailed installation photos, especially the routing diagram. Look, there's NO WAY I could afford such a WORK of ART, however, if you are reading this, and were so inclined and could put together a price, I'd wonder about the air filter element cover and if you could make one for me...with some personal touches like you have inscribed. One thing I've never been thrilled about with the TTS is how the air filter element just kind sits out there all alone, all by itself, naked.

I've been chewing through everything I can find on the TTS subject but the "Search" function doesn't always bring everything up. If anyone has anything stored on the subject and would like to throw in a link here I'd appreciate it! I don't know what the turn-around time is at TTS-Performance but everything I'll need to go to a Stage "2.5" (with the C30-74 Rotrex) is on order having just called in my Debit Card yesterday for the final upgrade to the bigger Rotrex and larger fuel injectors.

Attached here for comments and suggestions is my revised build sheet. I think I got bilked on FaceBook for that V&H 2-1 Comp. Series Exhaust (thank goodness I only made a deposit prior to a shipping quote), so I'll be looking for a replacement. Options are running out but quick. I like what Fitzgerald is offering but I REALLY like the V&H as I have one installed on CTHULHU. Also, AutoVerdi hasn't gotten back to me as of yet about the rods and although I have been in e-mail contact with MecTec (but not yet about the Needle Bearings), I haven't placed an order. I'm also still not sure about the pistons as TTS recommends JE (but I would want SwainTech to include them in my coating order). I don't yet have anything down here for head work or a throttle body. Still unsure if it's necessary or worth it. Big shout out to Gowanda Harley-Davidson for ordering me the necessary specialty tools and for having a Dyno only 11 miles away from me! I'll be posting photos (and videos on YouTube) as parts come in. Note: "In Stock" on my build sheet means I already have it on my shelf in my shop. Everything in blue means I'll be getting it as my monthly budget allows. Everything in purple means I'll need to complete disassembly prior to order. I should be getting the Miller Multi-Process welder Saturday and I already have the materials on hand for the rotating engine cradle I'll be building. A thanks to rbabos for the photos and drawings with specs.

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