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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys, since completing the major rebuild on my 2004 VRSCA (and between other projects) I've been sorting out a range of teething problems, mainly small but irritating!

I decided to take it for a decent ride a few days back to see what issues would transpire and was pleased until I had to brake suddenly at speed on the freeway...and the motor cutout. The instrument cluster also seemed to die. To restart it I had to turn the ignition switch off and then on again. I rode the bike again tonight and found that it only does this under hard braking.

At the time the bike was damaged in a fire the original TSM (not the security version) and the wiring loom were well beyond repair.

The bike has a new TSM fitted but I am not certain whether it is positioned correctly. Printed on the back of the TSM is a warning stating that if it is fitted or oriented incorrectly the engine may/will cut out without warning.

I believe this is the problem. Could someone verify the correct orientation of the TSM for me. ~ Vince

Here are a few pix of the TSM as currently fitted.





 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Brett, can you take a photo of it for me to show it's position in relation to the frame.
My original parts were so badly damaged that I have no real idea about the orientation.

~ Vince
 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Found this piece of Info

Bank Angle Sensor:
The Bank Angle Sensor is used to shut down the ignition if the bike goes off vertical (you lay it down) by more than 45 degrees. The Bank Angle Sensor (sometimes called the tilt switch) has nothing to do with the turn signal cancellation circuits even though in new bikes it is part of the Turn Signal Module or Turn Signal Security Module.

It's got a hall effect sensor built into it, that's why it's a 3 wire sensor. When the BAS is upright, it puts out something slightly over 0.6 volts dc, and when it tips over, the voltage jumps up over 3.1 volts DC.
 

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brett
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9,338 Posts
i cant do it till tommorrow ,but will asap ,but im sure mine is slightly different o how yours is ment to sit
 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thats fine Brett. I believe these units are used across the broad range of Harleys...whether its a TSM, a TSSM or the HSFM with the remote fob.

I think the unit incorporates the tip switch...so just orienting it differently should stop it from cutting the motor out? Chime in anyone.
 

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durata membro
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17,603 Posts
You have a pre 07 V-Rod there.The soft plastic over the fuel sender is the giveaway to me.The 07 and newer are placed differently.I have both,and I've had them apart several dozen times and memory says you have it mounted correctly.
Here's the orientation from the 03 service manual.
 

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Premium Member
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... I believe these units are used across the broad range of Harleys...whether its a TSM, a TSSM or the HSFM with the remote fob.

I think the unit incorporates the tip switch...so just orienting it differently should stop it from cutting the motor out? Chime in anyone.
There are two types of TSM modules; the TSM-Y (68921-01D and 68921-07) and the TSM-Z (68920-01D and 68920-07).

The TSM-Y modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module perpendicular to the long direction of the bike like those in the current VRSC models.

The TSM-Z modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module parallel to the long direction of the bike like those in the older VRSC models.

From your picture I see you have a 68921-01D TSM-Y so you either need to turn it 90° or get a 68920-01D TSM-Z.
 

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The Pharoah Rider
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402 Posts
Had the same problem yesterday when I mounted the fender plate & the sissy bar. The horn, direction signals & the fuel indicator were all not working but did not have a motor cut out. My module is oriented in a perpendicular plane to the one in the pic above. Have VRSCDX 08.
 

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Blowin' Smoke
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2,647 Posts
The TSM on my '02 is mounted on the rear fender under the front of the pillion, in line with the length of the bike. The larger end is forward and slightly down on the forward curve of the fender.
 

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durata membro
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17,603 Posts
There are two types of TSM modules; the TSM-Y (68921-01D and 68921-07) and the TSM-Z (68920-01D and 68920-07).

The TSM-Y modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module perpendicular to the long direction of the bike like those in the current VRSC models.

The TSM-Z modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module parallel to the long direction of the bike like those in the older VRSC models.

From your picture I see you have a 68921-01D TSM-Y so you either need to turn it 90° or get a 68920-01D TSM-Z.
This is good information.
Thanks.:notworth:
 

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Premium Member
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The TSM on my '02 is mounted on the rear fender under the front of the pillion, in line with the length of the bike. The larger end is forward and slightly down on the forward curve of the fender.
I have an '02 also but my TSSM is mounted 180° from yours if I understand your description. Mine is mounted like enigmas as shown in the attached picture where the large end with the connector is towards the back of the bike. It doesn’t matter if it’s mounted 180° from normal. It only causes a problem when mounted 90° from how it should be.

 

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SpeedoDocter
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2,364 Posts
Good info steve..

I know that pillow wont give much room to rotate it 90degrees. To be able to change the back end i did move my ecm to the air box. i loosened up the wirewrap a littlle from the harnas and made it to the front of the airbox whitout cutting any cables. If you want to keep this TSSM you can mount it 90degree from now in that space.
 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Steve you have this module fitted to your bike right? TSM-Z

The TSM-Z modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module parallel to the long direction of the bike like those in the older VRSC models.

I'll check for this code on my module.

Vroder you state that your module is turned about 180 degrees from mine. (i.e. Facing the other way). Can you confirm?
 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally Posted by stever975
There are two types of TSM modules; the TSM-Y (68921-01D and 68921-07) and the TSM-Z (68920-01D and 68920-07).

The TSM-Y modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module perpendicular to the long direction of the bike like those in the current VRSC models.

The TSM-Z modules are designed to be mounted with the long direction of the module parallel to the long direction of the bike like those in the older VRSC models.

From your picture I see you have a 68921-01D TSM-Y so you either need to turn it 90° or get a 68920-01D TSM-Z.
Steve, I've got a DP /N68921D TSM

The part number is printed on the side of the unit.

The unit (a HD part) is manufactured in Singapore...go figure?
 

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enigmas
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340 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, turning it around 180° doesn't work...the engine cuts out just the same (perhaps worse).

Orienting it 90° to the original position in the first post and it's fine. I can brake heavily and the motor continues to run. See pic below.



Note:
Whatever acts as the BAS (Bank Angle Sensor) works longitudinally in the module.

* I could test this by leaning the bike over at a severe angle with the motor running (stationary)... but I don't think I'll go there!
 

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Friend of Max.
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21,719 Posts
On my V-Rod, if the Bank Angle Sensor shuts the bike off, the instrument cluster will read "TIP." Do they not do this anymore? (It was a pain in the ass when I went to switch out my seat.)
 

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Premium Member
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6,248 Posts
Ok, turning it around 180° doesn't work...the engine cuts out just the same (perhaps worse).

Orienting it 90° to the original position in the first post and it's fine. I can brake heavily and the motor continues to run. See pic below.
Whatever acts as the BAS (Bank Angle Sensor) works longitudinally in the module.

* I could test this by leaning the bike over at a severe angle with the motor running (stationary)... but I don't think I'll go there!
Your TSM is behaving just like it’s supposed to. As I mentioned I could see the part number on your TSM and it’s a 68921-01D. This is a TSM-Y. You won’t see this printed on the unit. The TSM-Y needs to be oriented 90° to what your 2002 TSM mount allows as you found out. These are the units that the late model VRSC bikes use. You should have bought a 68920-01D.

The easier way to test this is to remove the duct tape and hold the TSM in your hand. After starting the bike you can then move the TSM around freely without moving the bike and find out which way it’s sensitive to leaning. From what I remember the early IM (instrument module) like yours doesn’t display “TIP” like the newer ones do when the bank angle sensor limit is reached.
 
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