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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I just got back from my visit to the Terry Components shop and talked with Gary who is there press guy. He first told me the unit didn't work at this point in time on the V-Rod. He then got a call from the front desk saying they just received a unit for the V-Rod. He then told me they needed a test bike and asked me if I would be interested. We went out so he could look at my bike and see where things would fit. We came to the conclusion it would indeed fit. They are going to install the O2 bung on the front cylinder head pipe about 4" from the exhaust port with the O2 sensor facing inward. The actual unit will be installed where the PCIIIr is now (under the L/S cover). They will dyno my bike as it is set up now for a baseline, then remove the PCIIIR and install their unit. I will then ride it for 100 miles and then return it to them for a follow up dyno session. I will also put some more miles on it to record fuel economy numbers.

If the results aren't good, we can remove the unit and the O2 and just cap the bung hole and reinstall the PCIIIr. Should be interesting to say the least.



John
 

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Neat, good for you!

Sounds like a no brainer! Keep us informed, it maybe a great deal for us all. Thanks, Fred :ride: :mrgr:

Ketsugo said:
I just got from my visit to the Terry Products shop and talked with Gary who is there press guy. He first told me the unit didn't work at this point in time on the V-Rod. He then got a call from the front desk saying they just received a unit for the V-Rod. He then told me they needed a test bike and asked me if I would be interested. We went out so he could look at my bike and see where things would fit. We came to the conclusion it would indeed fit. They are going to install the O2 bung on the front cylinder head pipe about 4" from the exhaust port with the O2 sensor facing inward. The actual unit will be installed where the PCIIIr is now (under the L/S cover). They will dyno my bike as it is set up now for a baseline, then remove the PCIIIR and install their unit. I will then ride it for 100 miles and then return it to them for a follow up dyno session. I will also put some more miles on it to record fuel economy numbers.

If the results aren't good, we can remove the unit and the O2 and just cap the bung hole and reinstall the PCIIIr. Should be interesting to say the least.



John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
VrodG said:
John .......at the right place at right time! So this unit will adjust the fuel through the rpm range???? correct mixture at sea leval and the mountains???????
Correct,
Unlike a map, this unit adjusts constantly to all the environmental factors, thus no need for a PCIIIr or an RT for A/F management.



John
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
VrodG said:
I was surprized to see only one 02 sensor and in the front. Won't the rear run hotter and leaner with on senser it can't tell what the rear is doing or correct it?

On water cooled bikes the rear cylinder doesn't run hotter as it does on air cooled bikes. I did ask about why not have two O2's and Gary told they me have a unit like that in the future. The PCIIIr doesn't adjust the A/F mixture to the cylinders individually, only the RT does at this point in time. But the RT can't adjust as environmental factors change (weather altitude etc). When Gary looked at my bike he commented on how black my pipes were at the exhaust openings. He said, man we can clean that up referring to how my map was too rich for daily riding.


John
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well it's not going to cost me a cent but the unit retails for $568.00. Installation would between one and two hours. If all works out, I might have an in for a sizable discount. I can't go into details now, as it would be premature. Lets first see it the thing works.


John
 

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You are a lucky dog :D They sound very confident in their system.When is all of this to take place?This sounds very promising for the v-rod community.
About your comment about rear cylinder tuning.The new pcIIIusb will now let you tune the rear cylinder.
I am going to wait on the pcIIIusb to see how this new system works out.
 

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Just so everyone understands the capabilities of this unit and how it will complement, not replace, a good baseline tune (SE Flash or custom RT map).

Your existing system can accommodate changes in altitude and weather with the best of them. It calculates the needed fuel based on barometric pressure, intake air temperature and manifold absolute pressure. The addition of and O2 sensor doesn't mean the unit will adjust to atmospherics better than what you already have

This unit only adjusts the fuel mixture, it does nothing for the timing (advance curve). To make the most power across the power band you will still need at least one of the SE flashes.

Example: The factory ECM goes through all it's calculations and determines the injector needs to stay open for 9.50 ms. The injector opens for that long and the engine goes through a power stroke. This unit then measures the AFR of that power stoke and determines that the mixture was too lean and adds another .50 ms to the pulse width (resulting in a 10.00 ms pulse width). The next power stoke happens and the system reads the AFR as being a little too rich. The box recalculates and reduces the added pulse width by .25 ms (resulting in a total pulse width of 9.75 ms). and so on and so on...... Since this is a learning system it stores the values in a table that's keyed to RPM so it can lookup the results faster and adjust quicker. (that's why it needs 100 or so miles of riding to calibrate itself to your bike, without the lookup tables it can't adjust quick enough)

This takes care of the fuel mixture but you're still left with the ignition timing and if you're still running the stock flash then you're leaving some power on the table.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great complement to our ECM and with the addition of the basic SE flash allow you to make good power AND be able to change things like pipes or run topless without going to a dyno and suffering through some of the issues people here have had.

John,

You need to get them to spring for the SE flash as well. If they really want to show what this thing can do they need these three baselines:

1. Completely stock
2. Stock ECM with their box
3. SE Flashed ECM with their box.

This should get interesting, I'm jealous ;) :thumb:

Mark
 

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John.
Who's gonna Pay for your New Motor when it Malfunctions? :slap: I am interested in seeing Your True DYNO Sheets now.Good Luck ,but you have been WARNED! :thumb:
 

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? for Mark

Hi Mark, I just finished my break in miles yesterday and anxiously waiting to see how she goes 5500 to 8000 rpm's! Too bad it's 40 degrees today! I have the SE 16G pipes and air filter, stage one download (flash?), 250 Eurocomp wheel with a 30 tooth spocket ( 28 coming soon as they produce them for the 28mm offset) on my VRSCB 04 bike. Can I run topless without any other changes? Where do you put the dingy( ati ?)on the top of the airbox if you run topless?
I too, would like to max torque mid range for street 0 to 90 mph acceleration. Should I standby and see how this Terminal dingy thing works or should I go for the RT which you seem to favor? I read all your posts on understanding the EFI. I have a long way to go! Thanks for your help. Fred the fryguy :confused: :confused: :biker:


mjw930 said:
Just so everyone understands the capabilities of this unit and how it will complement, not replace, a good baseline tune (SE Flash or custom RT map).

Your existing system can accommodate changes in altitude and weather with the best of them. It calculates the needed fuel based on barometric pressure, intake air temperature and manifold absolute pressure. The addition of and O2 sensor doesn't mean the unit will adjust to atmospherics better than what you already have

This unit only adjusts the fuel mixture, it does nothing for the timing (advance curve). To make the most power across the power band you will still need at least one of the SE flashes.

Example: The factory ECM goes through all it's calculations and determines the injector needs to stay open for 9.50 ms. The injector opens for that long and the engine goes through a power stroke. This unit then measures the AFR of that power stoke and determines that the mixture was too lean and adds another .50 ms to the pulse width (resulting in a 10.00 ms pulse width). The next power stoke happens and the system reads the AFR as being a little too rich. The box recalculates and reduces the added pulse width by .25 ms (resulting in a total pulse width of 9.75 ms). and so on and so on...... Since this is a learning system it stores the values in a table that's keyed to RPM so it can lookup the results faster and adjust quicker. (that's why it needs 100 or so miles of riding to calibrate itself to your bike, without the lookup tables it can't adjust quick enough)

This takes care of the fuel mixture but you're still left with the ignition timing and if you're still running the stock flash then you're leaving some power on the table.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great complement to our ECM and with the addition of the basic SE flash allow you to make good power AND be able to change things like pipes or run topless without going to a dyno and suffering through some of the issues people here have had.

John,

You need to get them to spring for the SE flash as well. If they really want to show what this thing can do they need these three baselines:

1. Completely stock
2. Stock ECM with their box
3. SE Flashed ECM with their box.

This should get interesting, I'm jealous ;) :thumb:

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Mark,
The stock HD flash does NOTHING to the timing nor does the 020 PC map for my set up and neither does the 021 map for the same set-up with the HD flash. I wouldn't run it stock, because it would run WAY too lean with my near topless air box, SE A/F and V-Mods. They will be doing their baseline with my custom map and the 020 off the shelf map. Then I'll run with no map or factory flash with their unit.



Kaz,
They have stated they will guarantee the unit will do no damage and have offered to put that in writing.



John
 

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I was realy interested in this when first seen. Realy glad that there are people on this forum that have the balls to try something and inform all of us. John we all know that you are trying to help everybody on the forum, and good luck to you and thanks agin.
keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Redbud!

Vinny,
The company owner (Keith Terry) and most of his people are in Ohio (I think) at a trade show. They will be back Monday or Tuesday. Gary, their press guy told me to be ready to drop off my bike next week (this coming week). They want it for a full day. I plan on being there for the dyno session but not for the actual install.


John
 

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I'm still not quite clear on why there isn't one of these O2's for each cylinder? It just doesn't seem logical to only have one.

Seems to me that if only the front had it, things would get kinda funky. One cyl working harder or lighter than the other, stress, etc.
 
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