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Discussion Starter #62
The cams: I was lucky enough to find a set of jones scs2. I would suggest going into some vrod fb groups & asking around. Some guys buy multiple sets for resale. They mark them up, but there isnt a whole lot of choices out there. The next best is a set of stock cams. Their overlap isnt enough to cause you problems, and it's a TON less expensive.
John
 

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Discussion Starter #66
The injector size & fuel pressure / pump are a mathematical equation. Boost level, desired HP, fuel used, and a couple other things enter into the mix. If going over roughly 6psi boost, or maybe 160ish HP, you need to consider ALOT more than just "do I need injectors".
 

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I've been thinking about the same thing primarily because I want to run E85. Curious to see what the options are.
Fuel pump, injectors, and lines must be compatible. Also your stoich ratio with E85 is a lot richer compared to straight gas. In other words, you won't like the mileage.

I run E85 in a drag car, but it's just that...a drag car (E85 is comparable to ~105 octane in terms of pre-ignition resistance so it's "cheap" race gas essentially).

Are you planning on drag racing? If not, I'd stick to whatever the highest octane you can reasonably buy at your local pumps.
 

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Have you thought about upgraded Fuel Injectors/fuel pump. I'm at the point of planning for my Supercharger and unsure if ill need it or not.
Depends on how far you want to go. For street use and available octane, the IPW injectors in the kit, stock regulator at 4 bar and a higher output pump should cover it for 6psi boost. Stock pump good for about 165 hp so right on the edge. Past that, more output desirable and even for 6psi it pays to have a bit of extra. The stock psi regulator and higher output pump, with the IWP 189 injectors should be plenty. Next step would be higher output pump with the 5 bar (72psi) regulator if going past 6psi but then lower compression pistons, boost cams and engine upgrades come into the picture. Don't forget a chain drive at that point as well. Hell,might as well go with the outboard drive bearing support while at it to make that area up to the task. It's only money.
Ron
 

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Fuel pump, injectors, and lines must be compatible. Also your stoich ratio with E85 is a lot richer compared to straight gas. In other words, you won't like the mileage.

I run E85 in a drag car, but it's just that...a drag car (E85 is comparable to ~105 octane in terms of pre-ignition resistance so it's "cheap" race gas essentially).

Are you planning on drag racing? If not, I'd stick to whatever the highest octane you can reasonably buy at your local pumps.
Yep, very familiar with it as I've ran it in my last 3 vehicles and run it in my current 2013 F-150 with the 5.0. It's tuned on E85. Dollar for dollar it's cheaper, at least here, than running premium 93. I'm seeing 3mpg less overall which isn't terrible given the performance gains. I was more curious as to what our specific options were for injectors and fuel pump as I hadn't really seen any options for these bikes yet. I probably just haven't looked hard enough :D
 

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Depends on how far you want to go. For street use and available octane, the IPW injectors in the kit, stock regulator at 4 bar and a higher output pump should cover it for 6psi boost. Stock pump good for about 165 hp so right on the edge. Past that, more output desirable and even for 6psi it pays to have a bit of extra. The stock psi regulator and higher output pump, with the IWP 189 injectors should be plenty. Next step would be higher output pump with the 5 bar (72psi) regulator if going past 6psi but then lower compression pistons, boost cams and engine upgrades come into the picture. Don't forget a chain drive at that point as well. Hell,might as well go with the outboard drive bearing support while at it to make that area up to the task. It's only money.
Ron
Alright so I didn’t buy the TTS kit. I bought a used HoliMoto kit. I don’t believe I have the 6PSI limiter (waiting for kit to arrive from Russia) so I’m kind of piecing parts from here and there to find what will work best. With the TTS kit they said to use the IWP 189 injectors, these are rated at 510cc/min @3bar. I spoke with Paul at TTS around July when I was shopping around for supercharger or turbo charger and I mentioned I wanted to push to 200hp and was informed that TTS will supply a 340 series pump and 5bar regulator that will allow for the 200hp.

I found an injector calculator on Witchhunter and plugged some numbers in… this page says that for obtaining 156.8HP (112hp+40% starting HP with the supercharger according to TTS) with 2 injectors @ 80% duty cycle of the injector and .55 for supercharger brake specific fuel consumption, I will need 577cc/min injectors, so if the stock pump puts out 4 bar pressure the injectors will be at 588.9cc/min so this works and will be around 77% duty cycle.

According to Paul I could push for 200 with the IWP189 injectors with a new 340 series pump and 5bar regulator. According to the injector calculations page to obtain the 200hp the IWP189 injectors will be at 88% duty cycle to obtain this and 656cc/min @5 Bar.

I was thinking build the fuel system for the 200 but only have it 160ish for the time being so I can open it up later. I am going to try and get the 6psi restrictor plate from them so I can try to fit it on my kit.

Do you think 88% duty cycle is too high? And what pump do you think he meant when says a 340 series pump? Is there another injector I should look into to snap into the stock fuel rail? Possibly the 9.2 g/sec Daytona twin tec injectors (from fitzgerald) that would have an approximate 81% duty cycle… Don’t want to bother Paul too much more since I’m not buying his system. Any help on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
 

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Alright so I didn’t buy the TTS kit. I bought a used HoliMoto kit. I don’t believe I have the 6PSI limiter (waiting for kit to arrive from Russia) so I’m kind of piecing parts from here and there to find what will work best. With the TTS kit they said to use the IWP 189 injectors, these are rated at 510cc/min @3bar. I spoke with Paul at TTS around July when I was shopping around for supercharger or turbo charger and I mentioned I wanted to push to 200hp and was informed that TTS will supply a 340 series pump and 5bar regulator that will allow for the 200hp.

I found an injector calculator on Witchhunter and plugged some numbers in… this page says that for obtaining 156.8HP (112hp+40% starting HP with the supercharger according to TTS) with 2 injectors @ 80% duty cycle of the injector and .55 for supercharger brake specific fuel consumption, I will need 577cc/min injectors, so if the stock pump puts out 4 bar pressure the injectors will be at 588.9cc/min so this works and will be around 77% duty cycle.

According to Paul I could push for 200 with the IWP189 injectors with a new 340 series pump and 5bar regulator. According to the injector calculations page to obtain the 200hp the IWP189 injectors will be at 88% duty cycle to obtain this and 656cc/min @5 Bar.

I was thinking build the fuel system for the 200 but only have it 160ish for the time being so I can open it up later. I am going to try and get the 6psi restrictor plate from them so I can try to fit it on my kit.

Do you think 88% duty cycle is too high? And what pump do you think he meant when says a 340 series pump? Is there another injector I should look into to snap into the stock fuel rail? Possibly the 9.2 g/sec Daytona twin tec injectors (from fitzgerald) that would have an approximate 81% duty cycle… Don’t want to bother Paul too much more since I’m not buying his system. Any help on this subject will be greatly appreciated.
Gary, I think you are approaching this correctly (aware/concerned about IDC percentages).

I try to stay at 80% or less when I tune, but depending on the injector type (and you need to contact the vendor for this) you might be OK even at 88% (the vendor can confirm at what IDC their injector is essentially wide open/static).

As for 340 series pump....I think he means this: https://walbrofuelpumps.com/255lph-walbro-gss340-intank-fuel-pump.html (really common pump used in just about anything fun).

Restrictor: I really don't recommend limiting boost from a Rotrex headunit via an intake restriction (what both vendors on the market use for their "kits"). I recommend using a wastegate style device post headunit to control how much boost is actually seen by the engine. Tons of such devices on the market.
 

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Once you select which engine internal strengtheners you chose, can you share with us? I'm learning a ton from you guys and hopefully I can start my supercharger project here soon too.
 

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Once you select which engine internal strengtheners you chose, can you share with us? I'm learning a ton from you guys and hopefully I can start my supercharger project here soon too.
well i'm not splitting the case, so, ARP head Studs, fitz billet Clutch Basket, barnett carbon fiber clutch pads, aim-tamachi billet pressure plate, fitz billet oil pan, Fitz engine brace.
if i were to split the case, id add pinned main bearings, straight second gear, and upgraded rods. but i'm just not confident about doing that myself, and i don't have a garage.

was thinking about vreelands engine mounts too but i'm not sure if those are needed or what they will do for me.
 

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well i'm not splitting the case, so, ARP head Studs, fitz billet Clutch Basket, barnett carbon fiber clutch pads, aim-tamachi billet pressure plate, fitz billet oil pan, Fitz engine brace.
if i were to split the case, id add pinned main bearings, straight second gear, and upgraded rods. but i'm just not confident about doing that myself, and i don't have a garage.

was thinking about vreelands engine mounts too but i'm not sure if those are needed or what they will do for me.
sweet, thx for the reply.
 
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