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Discussion Starter #1
Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
 

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Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
https://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440765
Very good explanation of why not to use them in post 5 from "RONVROD"
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you. Read all comments. Seems to make sense. May put stock set back in if I can find a set.
 

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Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. Either TTS from England (I'm in U.S.) or darkside from Australia. While both use the Rotrex unit as a base, they seem differently engineered. I currently have HD S2 cams. (Runs VERY well) Will these work for the SC application? I am not interested in 100% all out race. Just a very fast daily driver. Some have mentioned heavy duty clutch friction discs, plates, and springs. Understandable. What about final drive, keeping the belt? What happens if the SC drive belt breaks? Can it limp home, or am I stuck? I think I would install ARP connecting rod bolts, and likely head bolts too, but is the engine bulletproof enough besides that? As stated, use as a daily driver. Not to say a visit to the local dragway maybe once a year or so, but no endless hard launches or shock per-se, other than me liking feeling HARD acceleration but not "beating" the bike. I'm not concerned, at this point with tuners, as I have a couple options there. My interest lies in opinions and experiences from people who have done this, not for race, just for fun. What am I not being told, or what rock haven't I looked under? Please, any (even the smarty pants) comments will be read and considered.
Thank you for your time
John
John,

First check with Paul (Sales) and Richard (owner I think) at TTS about Darkside. Almost positive they use TTS kits, however I believe I read somewhere they had a custom side cover made (or still do) to put the headunit up a bit higher.

As for supporting modifications I would recommend a billet clutch basket, barnett kit, and a good main brace/girdle. From what I have seen from this forum and few of my customers that should keep you "OK" below 200 whp (tune dependent of course).

I completely hear you on your intended use as that's essentially where I am as well. Not interested in drag racing a motorcycle (I have dedicated track cars for that and I prefer metal around me going down the 1320). With that being said, I would be more concerned about detonation at WOT and EGT values at extended WOT. In other words, watch the knock counts and keep it rich up top (with decent timing retard as you go up the load table). You WILL need a good day (or two) at the dyno to get it dialed in. I'm considering adding some bungs to install 2 pyrometers while we tune my bike this winter. Curious as to EGT values, but this will be a dyno setup only as the EGT box I have is a big drag race style Digitron unit (would look hilarious on the bike on the road).

Other things to watch would be case shift. Then again IF you can see it's probably too late. I suspect a good tune and mindful eye on KR/knock count will be your friend here (that and no endless hole shots to stress the stock helical cut second gear....IF only these bikes didn't have an integrated transmission it would be on my list to upgrade.).
 

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if you want reliability then you should consider the strain the sc puts on the primary chain and tensioner.it was never designed to take the extra load of the sc.its a weak point any way.thats if youre looking for reliability and intend riding hard far from home.most dont of course but i wouldnt consider that system reliable.let alone the tuning needed to get the afrs and timing right.other wise throw it all to the wind and hope the gods are on your side.
 

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if you want reliability then you should consider the strain the sc puts on the primary chain and tensioner.it was never designed to take the extra load of the sc.its a weak point any way.thats if youre looking for reliability and intend riding hard far from home.most dont of course but i wouldnt consider that system reliable.let alone the tuning needed to get the afrs and timing right.other wise throw it all to the wind and hope the gods are on your side.
I have yet to hear (or see) a revo that had chain/tensioner issues from a supercharger. Have you? Interesting data point (I can agree that it was undoubtedly NOT designed for an additional load such as a belt driving a supercharger headunit, BUT I have yet to hear it can't).

Interesting..
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I believe the TTS & darkside to be basically the same unit. Am in the process of confirming that. As far as I can tell, it appears to me they are both driven from the crank, stator side. I believe the HM setup was driven from the cam / waterpump shaft.
Even if driven somehow from primary chain, I know of no "improvement" for that. Clutch basket, friction discs / plates, springs, and even pressure plate, but not the chain itself. I personally know of none that have failed, but I CERTAINLY do not know everything.
John
 

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I have yet to hear (or see) a revo that had chain/tensioner issues from a supercharger. Have you? Interesting data point (I can agree that it was undoubtedly NOT designed for an additional load such as a belt driving a supercharger headunit, BUT I have yet to hear it can't).

Interesting..
fact is ive seen it.the chain was severely worn and the tensioner munted.i guess if you have an engine that isnt subjected to long rides it will not show early,but its true.i guess the motor will blow eventually one way or the other .
 

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i incorrecty assumed the ops sc was cam chain driven,not the crank driven unit.
To Ron's point (and now that I have had sleep finally)....I don't know of a s/c system for the Revo that uses anything but the crank or water pump shaft to drive it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, bought a TTS sc today. Hopefully by next riding season I'll have it in & tuned (the hard part). Limited myself to 6 - 8 psi boost. Also planning on complete upgraded clutch, from basket to pressure plate. Barnett for some, not many ppl make the rest. Open to suggestions......
Also open to tuner suggestions. REALLY wanna keep stock ECM for timing and more importantly knock detection. BUT, I need WB 02's. It's a conundrum..............
Aslo, MUST keep stock muscle duals. With V&H slip-ons. That is non-negotiable. However, I can weld in the larger WB bungs.
What to do, what to do........
Any and all suggestions / even smartass, considered.
John
 

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Well, bought a TTS sc today. Hopefully by next riding season I'll have it in & tuned (the hard part). Limited myself to 6 - 8 psi boost. Also planning on complete upgraded clutch, from basket to pressure plate. Barnett for some, not many ppl make the rest. Open to suggestions......
Also open to tuner suggestions. REALLY wanna keep stock ECM for timing and more importantly knock detection. BUT, I need WB 02's. It's a conundrum..............
Aslo, MUST keep stock muscle duals. With V&H slip-ons. That is non-negotiable. However, I can weld in the larger WB bungs.
What to do, what to do........
Any and all suggestions / even smartass, considered.
John
Powervision with Target Tune module. Thst will get you WBO and oem knock detection/ion sensing. You will have to spend some decent dyno time determining the scaling of the tables that are pressure based (afr and timing..ve table is load based..). I have a few bikes going on the rollers this winter (vrod and a roadglide...both forced induction). Going to be fun as I haven't had much tuning time in the last few years.
 

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SC Stallion
That is not gonna happen. Thank you for the suggestion though.
Do yourself a favor and lose the stage 2 camshafts. Naturally aspirated (1 BAR) engines need a lot of overlap to purge and recharge the combustion chamber. That is why increasing the performance requires more overlap. With boost it takes considerably less time to purge and recharge the combustion chamber so excessive overlap allows your boost to blow out of the exhaust pipe. That is just 1 of the problems. When you put the motorcycle on a DYNO then it will mess with the tuner and you will have wasted a lot of money.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ron
I realized before beginning this project the S2's had to go, for the exact reason you stated. The overlap works well for NA engines, and to a certain point, the more the better.
On any boosted engine, SC or turbo, the need for overlap about disappears. Not completely, but for a good performing boosted engine, the cam profile must be designed for the application. However, I must add that through my research, the stock cams will work fairly well. Not ideal, but they will work. The 2nd best choice is a fairly aggressive turbo grind. However the best choice is a cam ground for a SC. The profile, duration, and most importantly overlap, is designed to allow the charge to enter & fill the chamber, and have the exhaust closed so the charge does not pollute the spent side (exhaust) and ruin the 02 sensors with raw charge.
After much looking, i was able to find a set of cams specifically designed for the SC application. They are not cheap, and rightfully so.
I appreciate your imput. Thank you.

John
 

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Am considering a supercharger for my '15 muscle. What about final drive, keeping the belt?
John
Plenty of torque & power, so yes, a 30t sprocket is still my choice. Not a fan of chain driven rear ends, to messy and noisy. Those 1" belts are quite tough and can withstand relatively much beating... spare belt/s stored cool & dark :D Have fun with yer build!
 
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