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swampboogiedoug

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
This seemed like a worthy enough subject to have its own topic. If you have anything we can use please post it. I found a reference to some guys in England running one on a VROD but no contact info. I have an email in to Thunder Heart about trying to run two injectors per cylinder simultaneously. I would appear that with the big Walbro pump two sets of stock size injectors would be able to support almost 250 hp. I have a Trask, so any creative ways to plumb it in would be appreciated. With all the exceptional talent on the Forum, this should be possible. maybe we can throw in water injection as a bonus. Let's hear from you ....
:lamer:
 
the plumbing wouldn`t be a major hurdle for a good fabricator.. the walbro 255 would still be able to supply more fuel than necessary. the problem is running the extra injectors.. i don`t think a t-max can run extra injectors and the hd delphi can`t run extra injectors.. so either of those would require some type of piggy back add on to run the extra injectors without completely starting from scratch...there are many aftermarket engine managment systems that could do the job the only problem is starting from scratch with any of them would require a lot of set up and tuning..but some of the after market systems such as the motec have data recording as part of the ecm including recording wide band o2 sensors.. so a lot of tuning could be done without access to a dyno ... still a very complex proposition...another thing that has been done in the past is to run a seperate fuel rail and pump and auxiliary fuel tank feeding the showerhead injectors with race gas... great for a really high boost setup running pump gas until the boost comes up and race gas is added ... of course that is really complex and i doubt anybody could find room on a v-rod for all the added components.. sounds like fun though
 
Instead of race gas, a buddy of mine that runs a high boost turbo in a car, uses methanol with additional injectors in the plenum. The methanol not only adds an additional fuel to the mix, it cools the incoming charge drastically since it evaporates so fast. The cooler incoming charge helps prevent pre-detonation.

Just more food for thought.
 
When would the Methanol be used? at a certain RPM ? only for racing? Any idea how much methanol would be used in a 1/4 mile ?
Is Methanol economical to use on the street or just race application?
 
Dave 3% with Nitro helps you get down the track at over 200MPH. :)

Methanol is used on a limited basis to fuel internal combustion engines. Pure methanol is required by rule to be used in Champcars, Monster Trucks, USAC sprint cars (as well as midgets, modifieds, etc.), and other dirt track series such as World of Outlaws, and Motorcycle Speedway. Methanol is also used, as the primary fuel ingredient since the late 1940s, in the powerplants for radio control, control line and free flight airplanes (as methanol is required in the "glow-plug" engines that primarily power them), cars and trucks, from such an engine's use of a platinum filament glow plug being able to ignite the methanol vapor through a catalytic reaction. Drag racers and mud racers also use methanol as their primary fuel source. Methanol is required with a supercharged engine in a Top Alcohol Dragster and, until the end of the 2006 season, all vehicles in the Indianapolis 500 had to run methanol. Mud racers have mixed methanol with gasoline and nitrous oxide to produce more power than gasoline and nitrous oxide alone.

One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminium from corrosion:

6 CH3OH + Al2O3 → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2O
The resulting methoxide salts are soluble in methanol, resulting in clean aluminium surface, which is readily oxidized by some dissolved oxygen. Also the methanol can act as an oxidizer:

6 CH3OH + 2 Al → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2
This reciprocal process effectively fuels corrosion until either the metal is eaten away or the concentration of CH3OH is negligible. Concerns with methanol's corrosivity have been addressed by using methanol compatible materials, and fuel additives that serve as corrosion inhibitors.

When produced from wood or other organic materials, the resulting organic methanol (bioalcohol) has been suggested as renewable alternative to petroleum-based hydrocarbons. Low levels of methanol can be used in existing vehicles, with the use of proper cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors. The European Fuel Quality Directive allows up to 3% methanol with an equal amount of cosolvent to be blending in gasoline sold in Europe. Today, China uses more than one billion gallons of methanol per year as a transportation fuel in both low level blends used in existing vehicles, and as high level blends in vehicles designed to accommodate the use of methanol fuels.
 
Yeah, I remember he had a great deal of issues finding a tank, pump, lines and injectors that were compatible with methanol.

He keeps a small tank in the trunk and using an axillary controller (one that he designed (worked for years at AEM)), but it is only active when the turbo starts to reach a certain boost. I can't recall the exact numbers, but I seem to recall him running about 24lbs of boost on a 2.8l BMW Z3 and getting around 350-400 rwhp and almost the exact amount of torque. He had to widen his stock rims so he could run 335mm tires and he still fried them through he first 3 gears.
 
Slightly off topic, but I remembered just reading about showerhead injectors on the new Aprilia RSV4, don't know if its come up. The following is a like to a cool cutaway image of the engine...

http://www.superbike.co.uk/news/aprilia_rsv4_technical_cutaway_engine_photo_news_283636.html
Very nice! That cutaway clearly shows the main injectors, plus the additional Showerhead injectors on the top of each stack. You can also see the additional injectors come from the same fuel rail as the main injectors.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Buell shower head set up

Doug,

Here is the exploded view of the 1125RR/1190RR airbox/showerhead system. Currently we are out of the upper fuel rails, as our milling machine was damaged in a storm, so it will supposedly be two weeks before the parts are here. Not sure which pieces you could use.

You would also need our DDFI 3 ECM system to run it. We also were near production on a turbo street bike using our fuel injection so we have some knowledge as to how to well control a turbo.


Thank you,
Tech Support
Erik Buell Racing

This should get us moving in the right direction. Anyone that can support his efforts, it would be appreciated. Erik sent this over to us personally.
 

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