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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My bike runs and shifts great regularly except when downshifting. If I slow down and downshift one gear at a time all is well. But if I depress the clutch and coast up to a light and attempt to downshift all the way to first it get lost in cyberspace or approximately 3rd gear and will not downshift until I take off slowly rattling everything in the tranny and then downshift one gear at a time. Is it internal or do I have a linkage or loose/shifted-moved shifter arm at the tranny. It is a real pain because I constantly forget to go through the gears one at a time and it is not helping the clutch or the tranny. The pedal goes soft and seems to have lost motion in it when I shift all the way down.
 

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Posting From The Pub
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7,850 Posts
Um, that's what motorbikes do. Get to the stop light in second and nudge it into neutral. If you fail to do this, you will have to rock it back and forth while changing down.

Your nickname implies the Fatboy doesn't do this. That's weird, to me. I've been riding over thirty years on a daily basis on scores of different bikes, and I've never met one that doesn't need to be stopped in second, neutral or first, anything else involving lots of faffing about.
 

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Premium Member
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6,248 Posts
My bike runs and shifts great regularly except when downshifting. If I slow down and downshift one gear at a time all is well. But if I depress the clutch and coast up to a light and attempt to downshift all the way to first it get lost in cyberspace or approximately 3rd gear and will not downshift until I take off slowly rattling everything in the tranny and then downshift one gear at a time. Is it internal or do I have a linkage or loose/shifted-moved shifter arm at the tranny. It is a real pain because I constantly forget to go through the gears one at a time and it is not helping the clutch or the tranny. The pedal goes soft and seems to have lost motion in it when I shift all the way down.
Louis is right. You should change your riding style.

Most motorcycles and all Harleys use constant mesh, dog & pocket transmissions with a sequential shift drum to move the transmission forks that select gears. The gear selection “dogs” need to mate with the corresponding “pockets” in order to shift and are forced to do this in sequence by the shifting drum. When the engine is running and the bike is stopped in gear with the clutch disengaged (lever pulled) both transmission shafts are stopped (these shafts are gear coupled to the rear tire) so you’d need to rock the bike back and forth to line up the dogs and pockets as you down shift from higher gears to lower gears.

You should never come to a stop without downshifting except in an emergency or for drive train testing.
 

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TRANNY KILLER :)
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14,572 Posts
You should never come to a stop without downshifting except in an emergency or for drive train testing.
I have to chime in and agree.... it was when I emergency stopped from 80 to 0 on the side of the freeway when I blew my trans, I tried to take off in what I thought was first but was really 4th or 3 and and half gear??? it was a horrible thing!
 

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Registered
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186 Posts
... But if I depress the clutch and coast up to a light and attempt to downshift all the way to first ...
I always avoided doing this with my evolution engine softail. The oil pressure was extremely low to non-existant at idle, so if you pulled in the clutch at speed and coasted all the way down, you'd get hot engine parts without oil flowing over them much to remove the heat, so harder on the engine. But if you engine braked coming down, you'd have the engine rpms to flow the oil.

So curious now, this must not be a factor with this revo water cooled engine or is it? The factory is putting in slipper clutches now, so what happens when you back off the throttle at speed, does it go to idle because of the slipper clutch? And this is not a problem because you have a water cooled radiator, and an oil cooler, and probably plenty of oil pressure at idle? Or what?

apologize if getting off topic.
 

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Noel
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4,602 Posts
I always avoided doing this with my evolution engine softail. The oil pressure was extremely low to non-existant at idle, so if you pulled in the clutch at speed and coasted all the way down, you'd get hot engine parts without oil flowing over them much to remove the heat, so harder on the engine. But if you engine braked coming down, you'd have the engine rpms to flow the oil.

So curious now, this must not be a factor with this revo water cooled engine or is it? The factory is putting in slipper clutches now, so what happens when you back off the throttle at speed, does it go to idle because of the slipper clutch? And this is not a problem because you have a water cooled radiator, and an oil cooler, and probably plenty of oil pressure at idle? Or what?

apologize if getting off topic.
Roller bearing can tolerate low pressure, smooth bearings found in the VRSC can not tolerate low pressures, the oil pump in the V puts out a LOT of pressure in comparison.

The slipper still transfers engine breaking resistance, just not enough to lock up the rear.
 

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Premium Member
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235 Posts
If, while sitting still in 3rd or 4th gear, you feather the clutch a little, it will shift down to your desired gear. You don't have to "take off" in the wrong gear..........Tom
 

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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Um, that's what motorbikes do. Get to the stop light in second and nudge it into neutral. If you fail to do this, you will have to rock it back and forth while changing down.

Your nickname implies the Fatboy doesn't do this. That's weird, to me. I've been riding over thirty years on a daily basis on scores of different bikes, and I've never met one that doesn't need to be stopped in second, neutral or first, anything else involving lots of faffing about.
I have had 6 bikes, two Vrods, a Fatboy and 3 Suzuki's and have had the same riding style for many years. I think I described my riding style wrong in my original post. I depress the clutch, coast up to the stop light and attempt to downshift with the bike still rolling but having gone from say 55 to 15mph. The pedal becomes mush and will not move anything in the tranny but has play in the pedl forward and back. A little history, my bike had the lower left frame broken when I got it, probably from the previous owner doing a burnout, although I did not know it because it shifted fine and rode fine. I rode it 600 miles home w/no problems at all then next trip I could not downshift due to play in the clutch pedal. I replaced the frame and the bike once again rode fine using the same riding style I have always used. Then I started having problems again Sunday. So I may be experiencing exactly what you are describing but after years of riding that way, I fear something else may be the cause because I am not coasting to a stop as I stated earlier, the bike has to be downshifted with rpms higher than I want that brakes the engine more than I want in order to downshift. Thanks for all your help and information. Any other options for a cure?
 

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Noel
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4,602 Posts
Check the shifter input shaft at the tranny, it might be damaged bent or about to snap off! If it is see many other threads here on how to repair it.
 

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Posting From The Pub
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7,850 Posts
I have had 6 bikes, two Vrods, a Fatboy and 3 Suzuki's and have had the same riding style for many years. I think I described my riding style wrong in my original post. I depress the clutch, coast up to the stop light and attempt to downshift with the bike still rolling but having gone from say 55 to 15mph. The pedal becomes mush and will not move anything in the tranny but has play in the pedl forward and back. A little history, my bike had the lower left frame broken when I got it, probably from the previous owner doing a burnout, although I did not know it because it shifted fine and rode fine. I rode it 600 miles home w/no problems at all then next trip I could not downshift due to play in the clutch pedal. I replaced the frame and the bike once again rode fine using the same riding style I have always used. Then I started having problems again Sunday. So I may be experiencing exactly what you are describing but after years of riding that way, I fear something else may be the cause because I am not coasting to a stop as I stated earlier, the bike has to be downshifted with rpms higher than I want that brakes the engine more than I want in order to downshift. Thanks for all your help and information. Any other options for a cure?
Well, still an interesting thing to do, coasting with the clutch in, but OK, sounds like a sticky linkage, pull the lever, grease the shaft, check for a bend, take the rod off, grease both ends of that, would be the obvious, because what you are implying is that the lever is only part returning. You can test this theory by putting your foot under the lever and pulling it back up (not enough to go up a gear) and then depressing it. If that works, it is the linkage.

I can't see any way in which burnouts could damage the frame. Done badly they will damage the clutch. The frame insert will have been damaged by a crash. Possibly that has bent the shaft on which the pedal rotates (easy to fix), alternatively he's given the end of the gearshaft a really good smack and done who knows what to the transmission...

I'd start with greasing, then look at the gearlever shaft, and after that come back...
 

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Greg/Moderator
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18,951 Posts
Well, still an interesting thing to do, coasting with the clutch in, but OK, sounds like a sticky linkage, pull the lever, grease the shaft, check for a bend, take the rod off, grease both ends of that, would be the obvious, because what you are implying is that the lever is only part returning. You can test this theory by putting your foot under the lever and pulling it back up (not enough to go up a gear) and then depressing it. If that works, it is the linkage.

I can't see any way in which burnouts could damage the frame. Done badly they will damage the clutch. The frame insert will have been damaged by a crash. Possibly that has bent the shaft on which the pedal rotates (easy to fix), alternatively he's given the end of the gear shaft a really good smack and done who knows what to the transmission...

I'd start with greasing, then look at the gear lever shaft, and after that come back...


:them: :D
 

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durata membro
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17,603 Posts
As you should have been able to see in the pics I told you to look at,there is no mechanical syncro system in this type transmission.It solely depends on the 2 components moving at the same speed for engagement.This is where blipping the throttle at the precise moment while downshifting is important too.
Personally,I rarely ever come to a stop in high gear and then go to low.When I do stop like this,I have to move the clutch lever in and out to get the dogs aligned for the next gear down.
The suggested procedure for downshifting this transmission is one ratio at a time as the bike is coasting to a stop.

Burnouts did not bend or break the frame rail.The frame rails are built to break easily so that minimum damage occurs during a crash.
Doing a burnout is not as hard on the system as you think.The belt and the cush rubber takes the blunt of the shock from high rpm dead stopped launches.Ist gear ratios are straight cut,so longitudinal thrust is not even an issue w this transmission.
 

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Noel
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4,602 Posts
......l.The frame rails are built to break easily so that minimum damage occurs during a crash.........
Setting aside operational techniques, which I agree with you on. :notworth:

We have seen examples of folks dropping the bike and either damaging the left peg mount at the frame rail and/or bending the shifter shaft. :spank: I thinks it's still suspect item to check out, along with the routine maintenance of cleaning & lubricating the foot lever pivot & hyme joints.
 

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Billy
Joined
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Setting aside operational techniques, which I agree with you on. :notworth:

We have seen examples of folks dropping the bike and either damaging the left peg mount at the frame rail and/or bending the shifter shaft. :spank: I thinks it's still suspect item to check out, along with the routine maintenance of cleaning & lubricating the foot lever pivot & hyme joints.
I was aware that there had been an accident that broke the frame. I was looking for info concerning that if a moron was doing a burnout could they affect the tranny. Sounds like the tranny is pretty bulletproof. Something feels weird in the linkage so Iam going to pull everything off and check it out. again I have never, and I mean never had a problem with the way I shift my bike. I am not saying that it is the correct way to do it but it has worked for years. I trust the knowledge of all the experience on this forum. Its just that something is different and I can't yet figure it out. All of you guy's input at least harrows it down and if I have to start downshifting one gear at a time, I will. When a bike is crashed and the frame is broken if the impact is from the front it puts a lot of stress on the shaft at the tranny so I will check it out and thanks again to everyone. I feel that I have a minor problem versus something major so at least I can rest easier.
 

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myvrodrocks
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6,021 Posts
I was aware that there had been an accident that broke the frame. I was looking for info concerning that if a moron was doing a burnout could they affect the tranny. Sounds like the tranny is pretty bulletproof. Something feels weird in the linkage so Iam going to pull everything off and check it out. again I have never, and I mean never had a problem with the way I shift my bike. I am not saying that it is the correct way to do it but it has worked for years. I trust the knowledge of all the experience on this forum. Its just that something is different and I can't yet figure it out. All of you guy's input at least harrows it down and if I have to start downshifting one gear at a time, I will. When a bike is crashed and the frame is broken if the impact is from the front it puts a lot of stress on the shaft at the tranny so I will check it out and thanks again to everyone. I feel that I have a minor problem versus something major so at least I can rest easier.

Trying this now would be the fastest and easiest trial. Who knows, it may work...
 

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Greg/Moderator
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18,951 Posts
Start bleeding at the line coming off the master cylinder and work your way down to the clutch slave, The clutch can be a pain to bleed but this works well for me..
 

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Billy
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509 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Setting aside operational techniques, which I agree with you on. :notworth:

We have seen examples of folks dropping the bike and either damaging the left peg mount at the frame rail and/or bending the shifter shaft. :spank: I thinks it's still suspect item to check out, along with the routine maintenance of cleaning & lubricating the foot lever pivot & hyme joints.
Pulled everthing off and everything checked out. However, since the previous owner had installed the chrome VROD shifter linkage and the pedal seemed to be a bit forward, I decided to adjust the linkage. I extended the linkage, bringing the pedal up and in a stronger position (and easier to get my toe under and it appears to have made a huge difference. I only had time for a short ride but the problem was gone. I took a short ride just prior to adjustment and the downshifting problem was still there and was even causing problems when going from 3rd gear down. I am going out of town for 2 weeks but I will take a longer ride next time and hopefully it is fixed.
 

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durata membro
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17,603 Posts
This is good.
The chrome shifters have been known to become stiff when they heat up from the bushing swelling,it's plastic.People remove the shifter and hone the bushing to solve this.

I was riding my 03 today and was thinking of your bike and how smooth mine is.I hope this is the problem,because I really enjoy going to the back back roads west from me and just tooling around slow with lots of up and down shifting.
 

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Registered
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I was told by dealer during break in down shift a lot??:stooge: I did so far so good it may be true?:blahblah:
 
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