Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys i have read a few threads on this topic but i am still confused. as like most on here i am new to all this and need to use the brains of the forum.

Is there a sert out for the 08's or will any sert work on them????????
is it just a program that is needed to work with the 08's through any tuner???

:bash: :bash: :banghead: :banghead: Im not sure please help:)
 

·
"Easy Wind"
Joined
·
179 Posts
Sorry to post w/ no help on this one, but I have the same exact questions???
and further, why or how does the new '08 o2 sensors come into play? Is the SERT better than a PCIII just because you can control idle rpm? I had an HD tech guy at a dealership tell me the new system is a closed loop until "x" RPM's and then open loop at WOT????
I just want my bike haul ass without any gaps in the midrange cruising speed and w/out any popping or undue engine trauma....and to make as much torque as possible until the ponies kick in, of course ;-) Sound is great, but I think most of us bought the V-Rod for it's performance and potential....
Can someone please definitively CLARIFY why a SERT over the other fueler options? What's the REAL differences between the big "two"...?
 

·
SNAFU
Joined
·
13,094 Posts
The Race Tuner is the ONLY device that actually modifies the ECM. Everything else is a piggyback device. On the closed loop bikes the PCIII actually fakes out the ECM by providing a bogus signal from the O2 sensors it then modifies the output to the fuel injectors. IMHO it's a cheesy way to tune an EFI system and not something I would ever put on my bike.

What makes the SERT better is total control of the ECM. If you really want to tune an EFI system you MUST modify the base fueling and ignition tables. Adding fuel after the fact is simply a band aid.

On the new bikes the closed loop portion is in the midrange under partial throttle. At idle, WOT and any condition with a large throttle opening (i.e. acceleration) the bike reverts to open loop. The feedback system on the new bikes is narrow band and can only tell the ECM when it's close to stoichiometric, it DOES NOT read actual AFR beyond 14.7:1. It basically reports 3 conditions, < 14.7:1, = 14.7:1 or > 14.7:1.
 

·
"Easy Wind"
Joined
·
179 Posts
mjw930 said:
....On the new bikes the closed loop portion is in the midrange under partial throttle. At idle, WOT and any condition with a large throttle opening (i.e. acceleration) the bike reverts to open loop. The feedback system on the new bikes is narrow band and can only tell the ECM when it's close to stoichiometric, it DOES NOT read actual AFR beyond 14.7:1. It basically reports 3 conditions, < 14.7:1, = 14.7:1 or > 14.7:1.
Thanks, but my engine diagnostics skills border the zero to none area. I DO know that Air/Fuel ratio is probably the single most important thing to look at when dyno'd, and that startup/idle/midrange and WOT will require their own unique settings...per cylinder, to achieve the kind of "smooth" pulling performance I want....But this narrow band deal? They were wide band? in '07, right? Will I be able to use a SERT and DTT type setup for the '08 in light of any of this? Oh, and what the hell is "stoichiometric"? Can I catch it if I'm out riding naked?
 

·
SNAFU
Joined
·
13,094 Posts
The '08 system on the V-Rods is basically the same as the '07 system on the air cooled and they are all narrow band. The new ECM's ARE NOT capable of adjusting for changes to the motor, it's there only to provide precise fuel monitoring so the bikes can meet emissions and/or work properly with a catalytic converter.

The bottom line is if you change the pipes you must change the program in the ECM to compensate. The Race Tuner is the "proper" way to do it. Other piggyback devices can and do exist and will work within limits for those who choose not to use the Race Tuner.

Stoichiometric =
Stoichiometry rests upon the law of conservation of mass, the law of definite proportions (i.e., the law of constant composition) and the law of multiple proportions. In general, chemical reactions combine in definite ratios of chemicals. Since chemical reactions can neither create nor destroy matter, nor transmute one element into another, the amount of each element must be the same throughout the overall reaction. For example, the amount of element X on the reactant side must equal the amount of element X on the product side.
Basically it means that for the complete combustion of gasoline under ideal condition the ratio of air to fuel is 14.7 to 1.
 

·
"Easy Wind"
Joined
·
179 Posts
Thanks again "mjw930"....but if I need to know or learn the type of info you've just relayed to get my bike to work w/ the SERT software and a DTT tuner, I might just pay to get it tuned;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thanks for the info guys. Its a bit more clear now

cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
myneed4speed said:
the 08's need the -01H SERT which is not available yet. We have 10 on oreder and expect them next week.

you have 10 on order do you work at a dealership??????
 

·
"Easy Wind"
Joined
·
179 Posts
MJW930.....I really appreciate the help regarding the explanations given in this "08 SERT..." thread. You should have just hinted at the EXCELLENT info you carefully posted (...and I stumbled on just an hour ago...always the way of it;-) in your "How things work" post in the same section! http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44
That was the perfect way for someone sans engineering degree;-) to glean an understanding as to the basic concepts regarding tuning parameters and such for use with these devices....P E R F E C T! That one thread alone was worth the "price of admission" so to speak for joining this great forum....Thanks bud.
I look forward to bending this collective ear when I DO get the SERT and Twin ScanII+....seems like an almost overkill for the basic mods (V-mods/K&N & topless) I'll be running, but I want my bike tuned to a gnats a$$ and smooth as silk from idle to redline.....you know? I don't think there's anything better than when you got everything running great on a perfect sunny day.....rippin' round the curvature and just feeling.....Jedi..........
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top