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matt blk & fire hot
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1,567 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
SYN3 OIL
:deal:eek:r is it SIN3
Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3.
manufactured by Citgo Petroleum.
Composition section:

Component
CAS #
Concentration

(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%

(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%

(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%

(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%

(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%

(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%

Item (1) is a Group IV base oil. unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.

Item (2) is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.

Item (3) is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.

However, Item (4) is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.

No information on the group number of Item (5) but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. presume that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in their premium motor oils and they are not considered synthetics.

(the MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil. The major base oil constituents in it are the same ones as are listed in Items (4) & (5) above.)

I think the Items (4) & (5) above, are to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. Good for them, but not for us?

Harley-Davidson talks about SYN3 in their advertising as:

quote: Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic basestocks, ...
SYN3oil.jpg
Or not!?!

If there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have stretched the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydrocracked Group III base?

Exxon/Mobil (Mobil 1 synthetic) lost a lawsuit trying to go after a few oil companies for advertising blends as full synthetic. Mobil lost, and now the oil companies do not have to disclose on the label it contains Group I, II or III base stocks which are all petroleum based.

So it is legal for Harley to market syn3 as a full synthetic, even though it is only 60% synthetic and the rest petroleum based.

If you want fully synthetic. Buy Mobil 1, RedLine or Amsoil, although Amsoil always seamed a little to snake oil to me. I'm going with Mobil 1, or RedLine for sure now!

:soapbox:

Have you all seen this stuff on the net yet?????
Is SYN3 a SIN????????
 

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That U in my mirror?
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1,511 Posts
Very interesting observation and analysis. Thanks for the info!
 

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Color me Gone
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27,333 Posts
Ken is correct it is old information but good to see it posted again because of so many new members since it was originally posted. I wouldn't say syn3 sucks but it isn't true synthetic oil either IMHO. I know Daniii has been using it a long time though and the inside of his engine was spotless with very little bearing wear so it can't be all bad. There have been several reports of newer motors using oil with syn3 though.
 

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Premium Member
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2,312 Posts
I still say mine changes gear smoother,less grabby clutch and there is less fan cycling when i changed from syn3 to a full synth.
Also thats when i heard my heat shield rattling, could not hear them before...coincidence ??
 

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matt blk & fire hot
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1,567 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
changes gear smoother?

CRAZY CLIVE said:
I still say mine changes gear smoother,less grabby clutch and there is less fan cycling when i changed from syn3 to a full synth.
Also thats when i heard my heat shield rattling, could not hear them before...coincidence ??
I was just pissed off by the marketing from HD. was a toss-up on what oil to go with on my 1K service. I trusted HD's BS advert. I used SYN3.

as for the trany shift, mine does clunk less, and the clutch works better. it slips just a bit from a standing start, which is good! not much engine torque at take off, so I don't lug it down hard two-up from a stop light like it did before. I like that! and may at some point change to a slipper clutch to help even more. I don't like that I now seem to miss gears more often than before? sometimes won’t go all the way in (thats what she said) sometimes miss a gear up or down. this is new from after the 1K service and SYN3. an NO it did not come with SYN3 in it from the factory, only some of the models & years did.
 

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Premium Member
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2,312 Posts
yes, mine does change smoother, not as smooth as my old jap bikes did though.
The oil subject has been beat to death here, but for the new people heres a recap...
1/ put what you like in it, at the end of the day its your bike.(except car oil)

2/ full synths in my opinion do make the clutch less grabby but may make it slip in first with a big handfull of throttle.(the only downside)

3/ Heat dissipation is a much discussed subject here and i reckon my fans cycle less with a non HD product lubricating the engine.Also the tappets seem queiter, thats when i heard my heat sheild rattle for the first time.

4/ does an oil affect warranty ??? with the knowledge base here on the forum and from my 17 years in the car repair trade I say no.

5/ if you are missing gears you need to lube the shifter linkages (lever pivot and rod ends )more frequently, i dont know if an HD tech would do it on a service as it does not seem to be on the service sheets/owners book, but we do on the forums.

6/ on the subject of fluids...change your brake and clutch fluids once a year or pay the consequences.

7/ dont believe what you hear about blinker fluid....max is the only authorised dealer for this !!
 

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Geezer
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13,343 Posts
All I know is that I changed to HD Syn at 5000 miles (I bought the bike with 3500 demo (hard ridden?) miles on it. I have NEVER had to add oil between changes. As max said, it looked pretty good in there when we took it apart at just under 60k miles.
I have a prepaid maintenance agreement with the local dealer. They charge me the difference between regular and Syn oil. So I've never considered any other oil, or I'd have to supply it myself, sort of defeating the purpose of the prepaid (hassle free) program.
You do what makes you feel good, but I see nothing wrong with HDSynth.
 

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matt blk & fire hot
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1,567 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ok, dead horse

CRAZY CLIVE said:
I changed from syn3 to a full synth.
So, what did you change to?????????

I'm not saying SYN3 is a BAD oil! I just wanted to use a FULLY Synth oil & feel I got lubed.
 

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Color me Gone
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27,333 Posts
I have to admit Dan's bike with 60k miles the bearings looked good and the inside of the engine was very clean. It looks like as long as you break them in good first so they don't use oil that it worked very well for Dan.
 

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EXCELSIOR
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8,367 Posts
MY_VRSCDX said:
SYN3 OIL
:deal:eek:r is it SIN3
Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3.
It is in fact manufactured by Citgo Petroleum.
This is what upsets me more than the mixture.
I was OK with using the stuff till now.
I've been boycotting Citgo products because I don't want to give Chavez any financial support and if this stuff is truly made either by them or even using products made by them then I'm done with it.
And HD should be done with it too.
 

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Jeff
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1,306 Posts
o2man98 said:
Old info. That info was posted back in 2003 or 04.
And what oil do you suggest Ken???

:stilpoke:

Gotta love your Amsoil....

lol
 

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Gone
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2,012 Posts
rc4man said:
I've been boycotting Citgo products because I don't want to give Chavez any financial support and if this stuff is truly made either by them or even using products made by them then I'm done with it.
And HD should be done with it too.
I agree. 7-11 got rid of them HD should too. I don't care how many PR campains they have on TV.
 

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Premium Member
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2,312 Posts
MY_VRSCDX said:
So, what did you change to?????????

I'm not saying SYN3 is a BAD oil! I just wanted to use a FULLY Synth oil & feel I got lubed.
I am in the U.K and after a bit of reasearch I now use Silkolene fully synthetic race oil.
Last year I heard they were making a new oil specially for liquid cooled harley's, I dont know if anything has come of that yet.
Every body has there own opinions about oil but if I was in the USA, I would get in touch with ken (amsoil)as he gives a deal for forum members.
 
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