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Yo
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had been reading the user's manual for the race tuner that I had seen elsewhere in the forums. Now, if I understand this right, if I were to have the SE 16ga exhaust and the SE air filter for a 07 AW, all I have to do is to load the map for those parts? Am I right? Or is this something best left to the dealer to do?

I really don't want to have the dealer that does not "know" the VR to be playing around with it like that if they don't know what they are doing. I would have to rip someone a new one if I was crusing along and then my engine goes south (ie. blows up, starts knocking, etc...). I know that a few members have this on their bikes and some with great success. I for one feel like an idiot for asking something that has been more than likely talked about before (although I couldn't find it).
 

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Color me Gone
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27,333 Posts
If you purchase an RT it comes with all the basic Maps that HD uses. You can load any map that it comes with. I don't know what the latest version comes with or if they offer those maps for the 07 since they no longer sell the SE pipes from what I understand.
 

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Yo
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I was chatting with the stealer the other day and he said that the se 16ga would fit the 07 aw no problem (and that they had 2 sets in stock). He also told me that all I would need would be the download for that set up (which I know isn't available for the 07 bikes). I know that there is one member on here that has this same exact setup on their bike and loves it (quote from him directly).
 

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Jay Johnston
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1,732 Posts
Open your RT Software, look for the Cal manual, it should be a pdf document. Go to page 28 and read about Cal #61, I know it says it is just for an SE air filter but after my dealer talked to Steve at V-Mod they came up with this load as the one I needed. From what I understand the V-Mod pipes are close to what you are considering putting on, I know they aren't the same but should flow close to the same. Note the file number, it should be 159GY002-A0.MT6. I think this should be close to what you need, You can get an opinion on this load from Mark (mjw), or Max or any of the other RT guru's out there. Good luck!
 

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Yo
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I am wondering what the ideas of the "guru's" are. I would like to make sure that it runs smooth as butter after all is said and done. I know that I like the looks and sound of the se 16ga. If there is anything else that sounds as good (or better) and actually has a map for the rt or pc3, let me know.

FYI: I don't have anything yet. I am still doing a bit of research on this issue and have not made a decision. The stock "sound" is getting old really quick. :D
 

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Jay Johnston
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1,732 Posts
joecool said:
I am wondering what the ideas of the "guru's" are. I would like to make sure that it runs smooth as butter after all is said and done. I know that I like the looks and sound of the se 16ga. If there is anything else that sounds as good (or better) and actually has a map for the rt or pc3, let me know.

FYI: I don't have anything yet. I am still doing a bit of research on this issue and have not made a decision. The stock "sound" is getting old really quick. :D
Lot's of folks like the V-Mod and CFR pipes and there are plenty of MAP's for both of those. In the end you will get a bunch of opinions. Such as mine I like the V-Mod and RT, I figure the RT gives the most flexibility.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
If you go with the Harley parts (the 16GA pipe) then you can either get the RT and load Calibration #16 (127NF002) or just load the dealer flash specified for 16GA pipes + SE air filter for the 2005+ VRSCA. That should be cartridge # 33390-06.
 

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Tacmedic83
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280 Posts
I was told at the dealer that a simple flash would not work on the 07 models as there is not one for the 07 bikes. I have the same setup you are looking at doing. (SE 16ga, SE Filter, Race Tuner) I however, went a slightly different route and had a baseline dyno run which came figured in with the race tuner cost at the dealer. They simply ran it to check the A/F ratios and make sure I was not lean. The bike was not ran at WOT as it only had about 100 miles on it a the time. When I reach 500-1000+ miles I am to bring it back in for a WOT run and dial it in so to speak. This dyno run was included as well. There may be easier ways to do this yourself with the race tuner but honestly I have not messed with it much at all and there are folks on here much more knowledgable than me on using it. The bike is running rich right now but thats a bit comforting to me knowing I'm not gonna melt anything before the next tune which will probably be done right after Daytona. BTW, I dont know if it was me you were talking about but I do like this combo. It gave the bike a bit more thump with out even being close to obnoxious.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
The maps included in the RT are nothing more than the programs the dealer loads using a cartridge or the Digital Tech. The limiting factor on the maps is the engine displacement and ECM version. '02 - '04 ECM's use one type of map, '05 and newer (up to '07 at this time) use a second version. The 1130 engines are the same. Any cartridge/flash that is specified for your pipe, air filter combo and an '05 or '06 bike (the last years they made pipes and flashes) will work fine on an '07.

So, which file (calibration) did they load using the RT? Probably calibration #16. If they didn't do any modifications to the file (and I doubt they did as most dealers know nothing about the RT) you ended up paying $400 plus their "dyno time" for have a $150 program loaded........
 

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Yo
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Tacmedic83, you were one of the people that I was refering to when I said that. I got told by the one dealer that is close to my house that all I would need would be that "flash" and I would be good to go. Then I thought that can't be right seeing as there are some differences between the 06 and 07 model and wasn't too sure that the dealer knew what they were talking about. I knew some (if not all) of you on here had experience with this stuff or have it on your bikes.

It's sad to think that the people who sell you your bike don't know sh*t about it. At least some of them anyways. :stilpoke:
 

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Tacmedic83
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280 Posts
MJ, you have been around this bike alot longer than me. My dealer called someone at Harley while I was standing there and they told them that the flash would not work for the 07. I don't recall why or who he talked to but I do remember the service manger stating that he did not see why it would not work but made the call anyway to confirm or dismiss the idea before trying it. This dealership is very V-Rod knowledgable but this was the first 07 they had been requested to do anything to that would require a reflash or program. They have never tried to sell me anything I didn't want. My total cost for the RT, dyno time, and pipe install was $350 btw if I remember correctly. The dyno time came with the purchase of the tuner. The are doing dyno runs and tuning everytime I've been in there. I would highly recommend their sales, service, or parts department. I was very happy with this purchase and am glad I went with the race tuner in the case I wanna change things some day. In all honesty I dont see why the flash will not work but I'd rather play it safe with the dealer and do it their way. In the event something did happen I've got something to fall back on. BTW it is Denneys HD in Springfiled, MO
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
That's a good price for the RT plus the work they did and I apologize for the sarcasm, it's just that there are so few dealers who really know anything about the bike and fewer still who know how to tune EFI that I get pissed every time someone gets ripped off. It sounds like you got a good deal.

As for calling Harley, the corporate line is NO for '07 because of the EPA crackdowns AND the fact that they no longer sell the pipes that work with these flashes. From a technical standpoint the flash for an '06 should work fine in an '07. The worst that could happen in the Digital Tech would refuse to install it OR the bike wouldn't run right so all they have to do is reflash it with the stock, factory flash (something only they can do).
 

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Yo
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I'd like to see what happens when they try to install it (the flash). I have no problem doing this sort of thing installing the pipes and the air filter (does not take a rocket scientist), it's the rest of it that I am not well versed in doing. If I had the information in front of me (or someone who I could call on to give me a hand), I could do it.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
joecool said:
I'd like to see what happens when they try to install it (the flash). I have no problem doing this sort of thing installing the pipes and the air filter (does not take a rocket scientist), it's the rest of it that I am not well versed in doing. If I had the information in front of me (or someone who I could call on to give me a hand), I could do it.
To be clear, reprogramming the ECM is typically called "flashing" and there are 2 distinct way to do this.

1. Use a $150 Harley cartridge. This can only be installed by the dealer and is a one time use item

2. Use the Race Tuner. This is a computer program and hardware that allows the end user to "flash" the ECM. The programs or maps provided are exactly what's available in the cartridges but the retail cost of the system is $400+.
 

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Yo
Joined
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604 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
So if I understand this right, if I were to get the race tuner and the other stuff that I want to have on my bike, I could do this myself? I am still not too sure if dyno tuning is required or not. I'm thinking that if it's basically what the dealer would do with the flash, then I should be good. Right?
 

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Tacmedic83
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280 Posts
No offense taken MJ! Im not even going head to head with you on any technical stuff to do with the VR. I can see where you are coming from after reading lots of posts like you are talking about on here. I have just enough mechanical knowledge to get in trouble and 95% of what I have learned about the V-Rod has been from here or the dealer. I would HIGHLY recommend this dealer to anyone interested in purchasing. I actually gave more for my bike(not much) from them just because of their customer service from the first time I walked in. I am happy to say that there service and support has only gotten better after the sale! Here is an awesome example. I bought a HD phone case from them last time I was in. They called one week later just to make sure I was happy with my $10 purchase!!!! WOW!!! I didnt know what to say! Everytime I have bought something I am getting calls to check on it, whether it was after the bike got accesories installed or just buying accessories or motorclothes. I get a call. No matter whether its the service, parts, or motorclothes dept I am dealing with, they are all super friendly and have went out of their way to make me happy (I'm picky) and never heard a snide remark or lazyness from any of them. If the other closer dealerships had their kind of additude they would have my business. Oh yeah, even though I had already found this site prior to me buying, the salesman I bought from made sure to tell me about this site! Evidentally he has used it for some product resource info because he reference this site several time when talking about the bike with me.

Back on topic though, Joe if you have enough understanding of the tuner and a laptop you should be able to do the rt install on your own. If you buy from a dealer though I would think that they would install the SE basemap from the tuner for you.
 

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Blowin' Smoke
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2,647 Posts
joecool said:
So if I understand this right, if I were to get the race tuner and the other stuff that I want to have on my bike, I could do this myself? I am still not too sure if dyno tuning is required or not. I'm thinking that if it's basically what the dealer would do with the flash, then I should be good. Right?
I'm just an old fart that doesn't know much, but I did have the pipes you're considering on my '02 A with the K & N filter and the dealer flash (no tuner). The bike ran great and got 45 or better mpg. I would recommend that you buy the filter and pipes (pretty easy install), then have the dealer flash it with the '05 map for those pipes (your motor hasn't changed from that one). If for some reason that doesn't work, only then would I invest in the tuner, and dyno if you want. FWIW, my :2cents: Remember, the seat of the pants dyno is the real world test of satisfaction, not the peak number at (illegal) engine speed.
 
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