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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My problem is that my RT package does not include my presently installed HDI file. I read out the file id number but it is different.
Is there any way to get the file from the EFI with the RT?
I need this to start.
My setup is the SE slipons with air filter and the corresponding HDI/SE EFI setting.

I checked with HD Germany technical support division and was very surprised that the guy really called me back after over two weeks as promised. Unfortunately he told me that the RT is only for racers mainly in the USA, so HDI files are not available in the RT required format.

Somebody please help.

Jan
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Am I missing something? Map # 14 = HDI+SlipOns+SE Filter. Your presently installed Flash file number is probably different but #14 is the RT equivalent.
 

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spit happens
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I saw that map in the manual.
What is HDI?Harley Davidson International?
 

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SNAFU
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vrodvinny said:
I saw that map in the manual.
What is HDI?Harley Davidson International?
I'm not sure but that sounds like it could be a reasonable acronym. It means is the bike has a catalytic converter :barf:

Not all non-US bikes are HDI, only the ones with cats.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
HDInternational, right!
The number is different, I assume that the Catalytic converter has too much backpressure. Thus the VE's might be adjusted accordingly. Once I receive the intermediate exhaust piece (thanks MAX!) without cat I will try that #14 file.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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Is this right? On the VIN you get a number then two letters then a number then two letters again THEN if the next single letter is Z you have 115hp but if it's A you're "international" and get 98hp?????????????

I'm going downstairs right now.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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Good! I'm Z.

That would be HD's low blow on the world.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My Dealer told me that only the french models are restricted to 98 HP, not generally all HDI models.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
mjw930 said:
Am I missing something? Map # 14 = HDI+SlipOns+SE Filter. Your presently installed Flash file number is probably different but #14 is the RT equivalent.
Mark,

The active settings / ECM Info, read out with the race tuner package, are:
Read ECM PN 32784-01
File ECM PN 32784-01
Read Cal ID 32872-02A

Today I made another test run and collected a data file with RT data mode, see attachment "nocat.zip".
I evaluated the areas of 100 % Throttle and 100 kPa MAP (full load) between 2500 RPM and approx 9000 RPM and edited the file #14 (105GQ017-A0.MT2) with the corresponding values (MAP, AFR, VE Front/Rear and Spark Advance Front/Rear) which I found in the data file.
It was difficult because I often had to calculate averages and double check again and again...therefore I only made for 100%.
Please have a look the attached file "readouts-A0.MT2"
I suggest to use "compare with reference" in combination with "Show Graph".
My presently installed ECM settings are obviously much richer than the #14, more performance orientated?

I need that file 32872-02A, someone please help!
 

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SNAFU
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Jan,

The 32872-02A calibration is from the older '02 SE cartridge for HDI Slip Fit. The file is only available in cartridge form so no one is going to have it available for you in RT format.

The map that came with the RT is an update. You can pull the old files from a post I made in the RT Files thread and look them over to see if the older map matches your settings but I wouldn't waste a whole lot of time on it since you added Max's middle section you should load the non HDI map form the RT and start from there.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, that is what I wanted to do!
But the #14 file is much leaner, maybe I should first install the IAT relocation kit. Probably the relo kit is the reason for the update?
 

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SNAFU
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Pull the old file down from the RT files list and compare it to the new. That would be the difference between top and topless.

When you say leaner do you mean target AFR or smaller VE#. Since we don't know the internal calculations you could have a leaner target AFR but a larger VE and the result could actually equal more fuel, it all depends on the weight the VE has in the ECM calculations.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Which file do you mean, please?
I quickly checked them by comparing the AFR and they all were quite different from mine.

When I say leaner then I mean both AFR AND VE, have a look at my file above.
 

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SNAFU
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OK, I looked at your data and it looks like the file I attached in the previous post is what's loaded in your ECM. It's tough because I had to find data points VERY close to 6000, 6500, 7000, etc. to be confident. The VE numbers are higher in your readout than the ones in the map but the difference between the front and rear fall in with the older map. See below to understand how the calculated VE and the programmed VE can be different. :diablo:

To understand how the ECM determines the actual amount of fuel to meter you have to think about the information BETWEEN the data points. The best way to explain it is to think about the "map" as a flat piece of elastic that has pins pushing it up and down at the 345 data points. Imagine the elastic stretching up and down as it's pushed and pulled. That's called "data point extrapolation". The computer extrapolates a number by factoring the surrounding data points and applying a constant based on the distance to each data point. Now that we understand how the computer gets the base VE for any given RPM / Throttle position you need to understand that the entire elastic sheet in moved up and down a sliding scale based on the temperature and barometric pressure. That's how you can get a VE of 100 when the map says it should be 98. That's also how the EFI system adjusts for temperature and altitude.

Now, the computer takes that calculated VE and knowing the desired AFR and the flow rate of the injectors it determines the amount of time the injector needs to be open to inject the correct amount of fuel for the given situation, hence the pulse width expressed in milliseconds.
 

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Autobanmod
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Mark,

thank's a lot for your help, I really appreciate this.
Of course I did the same and extrapolated back and forth - I calculated and compared around 150 (!) points just for the 100%MAP Load / Throttle collumn.
It's the same like with the steam tables we used during our engineering studies in thermodynamics...
All this is well known to me, but you are fully right to mention it.
When you loaded the old file 3202802b then did you convert it to the new format before you did your evaluation?
Don't be cross with me but I still cannot see that this file matches my settings, the currently active [email protected] MAP is 12,8 from 2500 RPM til 6000 RPM and in the old file it is 13,0.
At higher rev's it is looking alike, right!
 

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SNAFU
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I only compared it in the 6000 - 8000 RPM range and didn't spend a lot of time on it. I think the old map is actually a modified version of yours, hence the "b" at the end rather than the "a". I dodn't convert it, you only have to do that if you want to load it into the ECM, you can read it without going through the export - import routine.

There are quite a few "obsolete" calibrations out there based on the PDF that was posted in one of these threads. I think HD has been tweaking the maps and it's likely that you won't be able to find an exact match to what was on the flash you have loaded now.

BTW, I'm cool with this discussion, no problems on this side of the pond :D
 
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