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Discussion Starter #1
I suspect my rear mounts are taking a dump and need to be replaced. 2013 with 43000 kms. I seem to be experiencing more then normal vibes. Not always, just sometimes. Some days almost normal and some days worse. More vibes then I attribute to the Akro hard mount exhaust. Thinking back, I think there was more on the stock exhaust also then when I first got the bike. Most notable under hard accels and higher rpms as in harsh vibes in the whole bike, frame, seat etc. Once the load is off, it's more of a slight buzz in the pegs and grips, in which case this could be the Akro. That small amount I can tolerate but the acell load and high rpm is annoying . No way to inspect them short of tear down and change. Anyone here gone through similar vib sensations and found the rear mounts pooched? Front mount looks the same as the day I bought the bike, so doubt that one is the issue being such a simplistic design. Looking at pics of the rear mounts, well they look like a POS in a new state and very little room form wear allowance before going metal to metal. Seems that way at least.
Ron
 

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A few years ago a buddy of mine had problems trying to remove the oil pan on his 2003. Seems like the frame was in the way of getting at some of the bolts. Should not have been that way.
While trying to figure out why, I grabbed a large screw driver and was able to rotate the left rear motor mount which moved the engine enough so he could get at the bolts. The holes in the center of the motor mount was oblong instead of round like it should have been. The rotation moved the engine a little. You could watch it move when you rotated the motor mount.
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I just replaced the motor mounts on my 2007 and mine were oblong also (both of them). It helped on a vibration I have been having for quite some time.
 

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Wow great information Ron & Rusty G ! So of course this begs the question would one of those " True Track" stabilizers help prevent this ? I spoke to the owner about a year ago and he was very enthusiastic about me buying one but I couldn't really get him to tell me what it did or how it worked, I'm thinking it stabilizes the left engine mount to prevent this problem of squashing the left rear engine mount under power pulling on the belt and the effect on steering it can have. I've got two new OEM H-D engine mounts ready to go in but an engine change is the best time to add a True Track - Opinions - any Guru thoughts ?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Wow great information Ron & Rusty G ! So of course this begs the question would one of those " True Track" stabilizers help prevent this ? I spoke to the owner about a year ago and he was very enthusiastic about me buying one but I couldn't really get him to tell me what it did or how it worked, I'm thinking it stabilizes the left engine mount to prevent this problem of squashing the left rear engine mount under power pulling on the belt and the effect on steering it can have. I've got two new OEM H-D engine mounts ready to go in but an engine change is the best time to add a True Track - Opinions - any Guru thoughts ?
I'm not sold on the idea. There's very little cushion area in the mount, so if there is any islolators in the true track, the stabilizing effect would be slim or nil. If rigid mounted, no point having rubber mounts then. It's late and I'm too tired to actually look the product up, so I'm winging the comment at this point. There is another custom motor mount brand that uses urethane. Screw that. I tried that stuff in aircraft engine mounts and it can't handle heat. Went back to good old rubber in the end.
Ron
 

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Yea Ron I'm thinking for racing the urethane or poly mounts are probably more stable. For the street they'll just pass more vibrations than the rubber mounts would normally absorb. The True Track was I believe developed for other M/C's first then the V Rod was added. I guess the pull on the belt could steer the bike some by displacing the swing arm alignment i.e. front & rear wheels out of alignment, but it sounds like you say there's not that much potential movement even there to stabilize. Having said that what Rusty said about the center mount holes going oblong definitely raises an eyebrow. No way should that happen - obviously there was relative motion between the parts. I don't know if its a function of calendar time, total mileage of use or the way the swing arm pivot, engine mounts and large pivot bolt are built up and tightened down. Potential during replacement of engine mounts of needing careful measurements of gaps between the parts to be shimmed with washers and everything clean & dry so when tightened there is plenty of even clamping force on everything, with no looseness that allows the engine to vibrate & shift to wallow out and oblong the engine mounts. I've seen this before on off road race bikes where the swing arm pivot bolt and rear engine mount are all working and it's PIA to shim it so everything clamps down properly. Hopefully the V Rod is much easier since the mounts are removable and shims can be easily installed. I'll definitely look closely at mine when I do the mounts at engine installation. (y) :geek:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yea Ron I'm thinking for racing the urethane or poly mounts are probably more stable. For the street they'll just pass more vibrations than the rubber mounts would normally absorb. The True Track was I believe developed for other M/C's first then the V Rod was added. I guess the pull on the belt could steer the bike some by displacing the swing arm alignment i.e. front & rear wheels out of alignment, but it sounds like you say there's not that much potential movement even there to stabilize. Having said that what Rusty said about the center mount holes going oblong definitely raises an eyebrow. No way should that happen - obviously there was relative motion between the parts. I don't know if its a function of calendar time, total mileage of use or the way the swing arm pivot, engine mounts and large pivot bolt are built up and tightened down. Potential during replacement of engine mounts of needing careful measurements of gaps between the parts to be shimmed with washers and everything clean & dry so when tightened there is plenty of even clamping force on everything, with no looseness that allows the engine to vibrate & shift to wallow out and oblong the engine mounts. I've seen this before on off road race bikes where the swing arm pivot bolt and rear engine mount are all working and it's PIA to shim it so everything clamps down properly. Hopefully the V Rod is much easier since the mounts are removable and shims can be easily installed. I'll definitely look closely at mine when I do the mounts at engine installation. (y) :geek:
One thing I noticed and this is from new. The frame plate and engine plates for the front mount do not form a parallel . This places the rubber part and bolt on a slight angle. The rubber pad at the bottom contacts the front more then the rear and the bottom is off center. It's always been that way and hasn't changed. Just shit manufacture of the components. Check yours out.
Ron
 

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Roger that Ron the whole engine installation sounds like it's begging for a careful analysis for fit, form & proper function of the engine mounting points to optimize what was intended by the design but possibly lost in the manufacture and assembly of the individual parts. As always there is a tolerance in the manufacture of individual parts and sometimes they stack up against the proper operation of the entire assembly when they're all working against each other. This may be a case where careful attention to installation details may dramatically reduce vibrations that seem to affect some V Rods. My R Model's fine right now but my screwed up neck will not tolerate vibrations, one big reason I bought a Revo - so I'll inspect closely all of this at engine removal & installation. I'm thinking the True Track may work well to help control a loose engine in the frame mounts or deformation of the rubber mount under high power pulling on the belt but replacing the oblong mounts which are probably the actual root problem and proper engine mount setup is a more important initial job than just slapping a True Track on. .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Roger that Ron the whole engine installation sounds like it's begging for a careful analysis for fit, form & proper function of the engine mounting points to optimize what was intended by the design but possibly lost in the manufacture and assembly of the individual parts. As always there is a tolerance in the manufacture of individual parts and sometimes they stack up against the proper operation of the entire assembly when they're all working against each other. This may be a case where careful attention to installation details may dramatically reduce vibrations that seem to affect some V Rods. My R Model's fine right now but my screwed up neck will not tolerate vibrations, one big reason I bought a Revo - so I'll inspect closely all of this at engine removal & installation. I'm thinking the True Track may work well to help control a loose engine in the frame mounts or deformation of the rubber mount under high power pulling on the belt but replacing the oblong mounts which are probably the actual root problem and proper engine mount setup is a more important initial job than just slapping a True Track on. .
Got in a decent ride today, mostly doing an mpg check on my tune. Easy up to speed and stayed with traffic and speed limits. This is generally in the area of 3750 rpms. Came in at 39 mph. Reduced vibes until one time I got into it heavy on the throttle. The vibes were more harsh after that from 4k and up. Isolation in the rears must be right on the metal to metal zone. On another note, that Akro muffler freaks me out. Long ride and pulled back in the shop and shot the can with thermometer. 170* Must have awesome packing (insulation) in there. It's looking like a winter project and since the swing arm shaft will be out, I can then address a means of mount attachment for the Akro system. Thanks to Jeff a member here, Upnorth Biker , I have the procedure to change these asshole mounts without removing the engine, as he has done it also and for the same reason I'm bitching and moaning.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Make sure u check that stabilizer link. A shot of WD40 to make sure its free.
I will check it now. It's never seen water but don't hurt to give it a shot. Update. Link is fine and the bolt drops in, no force needed. I see you had rear mount issues at some point also?
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I will check it now. It's never seen water but don't hurt to give it a shot. Update. Link is fine and the bolt drops in, no force needed. I see you had rear mount issues at some point also?
Ron
You know, I can't see any off center issues with the rear mounts visually. I do not think my front mount is perfect though. On mine the contact on the front part of the rubber is pretty much flat to the big plated washer at the bottom. The other side there's close to 1/4" gap . The plated part that bolts to the frame and the black steel that's bolted to the head are not close to parallel and show a sag contition. This pic I found shows a reasonably uniform gap between the rubber and the large washer on the bottom. I'm wondering if this is the vibe culprit? I don't think mine ever looked as good as the one in this pic I found. Ok , everybody rush out and look at your top mounts and let me know if they look like this pic. The second pic is my mount with the arrows. Green arrow shows the rubber against the washer. Red arrow shows 1/4" gap and a rubber disc off center situation at the bottom.

Ron
 

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Ron I gotta say my mount doesn't look like that - everything is parallel & secure. There is something wrong there with your mount, either the line up of the assembly was wrong at the factory or somehow its gotten wrong in service. Support the lower engine case by gently jacking it up, remove that mount and inspect whats going on. While it's out wiggle the engine on its rear mount and see if there's any looseness or uncontrolled motion. OVER -
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ron I gotta say my mount doesn't look like that - everything is parallel & secure. There is something wrong there with your mount, either the line up of the assembly was wrong at the factory or somehow its gotten wrong in service. Support the lower engine case by gently jacking it up, remove that mount and inspect whats going on. While it's out wiggle the engine on its rear mount and see if there's any looseness or uncontrolled motion. OVER -
I did jack it and it goes up parallel and similar to the other pic. I think the outer part of the rubber has pulled down from the center section. Where the rubber attaches at the top plate it's not flat. Theres a raise area where it contacts the plate but then there's about 1/4" gap from the plate to the rest of the main rubber part of the mount. Looking at pics of the mount, it's flat when it's new and unloaded.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Thought of that Rob. Only thing is I cannot detect any off center of the swing arm shaft in the hole, plus if I jack the front of the pan up, the plates go parallel and the rubber looks centered. Still think given that, the rears are bad? Unlike this pic of a bad one, best I can tell is I have an even gap all the way around or at least nothing visually off center
Ron
 

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Obviously that front mounts going to have to be replaced it's toast so like I said when its out see if there's any motion at the rear mounts - and if the rear swingarm pivot bolt is tight & secure. To me it would be best to replace all the rubber mounts at the same time so it starts out again with the engine in the best possible position but if you don't want to tackle the rear mounts now and save them for winter if there's no movement or sagging at the rears maybe you could just change the front mount now - its bound to be much better vibration wise and may partially fix your Akro secondary vibration situation until winter when you make your swingarm mount - If you pull the fwd mount share some pics Ron probably ain't gonna be pretty -
 

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Hmmm I guess by the way the one pic looks the large washer is hitting the rubber at that angle. A good mount is more resistant to not hitting at all. I have changed the fronts a couple times. Only to find that the rears were bad and the front would not last long. Now the off center thing u are speaking of. Well the swing arm wont be affected in that way. Only the engine. You should be able to take a large screw driver or pry bar and check the rears also.By the way them pics look, u need all three mounts. But the front mount is bad. And I am quite sure the rears are to. I have replaced my first front mount at 15000 mi. One or two more since then. Bike is at 90 500 mi now. Replaced rears once and front is lasting longer now.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hmmm I guess by the way the one pic looks the large washer is hitting the rubber at that angle. A good mount is more resistant to not hitting at all. I have changed the fronts a couple times. Only to find that the rears were bad and the front would not last long. Now the off center thing u are speaking of. Well the swing arm wont be affected in that way. Only the engine. You should be able to take a large screw driver or pry bar and check the rears also.By the way them pics look, u need all three mounts. But the front mount is bad. And I am quite sure the rears are to. I have replaced my first front mount at 15000 mi. One or two more since then. Bike is at 90 500 mi now. Replaced rears once and front is lasting longer now.
Only the one front mount is my pic. The others especially the rear offset are sample of a bad one. I know the swing arm relation doesn't change but the shaft and spacer centering inboard of the swing arm, in the rubber mount hole does. Mine seem centered both sides visually. I think the center section of the front mount has ripped and sagged. I can just see a tiny crack at the top in the rubber in one area. Too hard to get a good view of it when it's assembled. If I jack the front of motor the plates go parallel and the bottom part of the rubber is more centered. I will order rear and front and do the front for now and see. Looks like one or two less four letter words involved with front replacement. I might add, that bitch was never right from new as my header pipe was tapping the lower frame rail at the bottom. The plates were not close to parallel either. I remember looking at it and wondering how that bastard can actually work right but it seemed fine for a long time. Looks like it just plain ran out of resilience within the whole rubber and is now basically bouncing on the rubber disc on the bottom. Vibes are not always there. Seems as the mount heats up, they increase. This also seems to be more noticable since the lighter Akro went on. I've had the engine smooth both with hard Akro mount and my rubber mount but all of a sudden the vibes come and go. I might be fine on the rubber mount and this mount might have me chasing vibes from the wrong source. Oh and giving both rear and front mount R&R a good look over, I'd like to kick the design team in the nuts. Both a pain in the ass.
Ron
 

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Yep. I still have the stock pipes. I had to remove and flatten the pipe in a couple areas so even when mount is bad it wont hit frame. Front mount not to bad.
Securing the top bolt thru the mount takes a little effort. No need to bother the exhaust. Support the engine.The bottom bracket to the front cylinder goes first.
 

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Yea, the rear mounts especially get the kicker fired up Ron - if you think about the thickness of the metal in the rubber mount at the junction to the engine and swing arm pivot bolt I can see any looseness or play will allow that thin metal to get oblonged like RustyG has seen. it really depends on the clamping force of the entire swing arm bolt more than the thickness of the metal in that rubber mount to avoid fretting wear from vibration. Theoretically as the swing arm bolt nut is drawn down all the free space between all the parts is removed courtesy of the rubber mount and equal clamping force is applied, the engine kinda centers itself, be it right or wrong. The front mounts on it's own. I can see why H-D engineered it that way - it's for that purpose as compared to a set of hard ears welded into the frame where everything must be installed with shim washers to get the correct gap free clamping force. That & ease of factory assembly.
 
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