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Twisted!!!!!!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You don't have to be an expert. I'm sure I'm not an expert myself but discussing this can do only one thing. HELP! :helpme:

Here's one. Do you go from lean to rich or the other way around?

How about this one? The RT has certain boundaries that cannot be crossed and the "ion sensor" detecting detonation is said in the manual to be "additional safety". Should I lean it out, use data mode, then adjust increased fuel and/or timing to compensate giving me better results :thumb: ?

Here's another. How come there's such difference between the front and rear timing charts? Not to mention the VE tables :rolleyes: :confused: .

Would any of this have anything to do with unequal length header design and unequal stacks? If so, will making the individual cylinders resemble each other the most give better results with equal length headers :cool: ?

Is tuning with a dyno a must :hmm: ? Maybe some can do tuning of his/her own then try it on a dyno. It would make for a more informed person having this bike tuned. Not to mention more fun if so inclined.

I have a ton of these :laugh: .
 

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Autobanmod
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Quote
making the individual cylinders resemble each other the most give better results with equal length headers
Unquote

Maybe yes, but then you will likely have resonance (bad!) unless you completely separate both intakes.
I trust that the engine builders knew pretty well what they did when they adjusted the VE tables as we can see them now, changing the VE's without considerable changes to intake/exhaust systems will bring no improvement.
The ignition tables are strongly influenced by the VE tables, that is the main reason why the timing charts are different.

The stock AFR should be quite lean alredy in order to meet valid emission and fuel consumption requirements, so I don't understand why you want to go leaner. Less fuel means less power (good combustion considered).
My strong recommendation is not lean the AFR unless you have a O2 sensor. I will shortly have a portable lambda sensor and post some results.
Last but not least:
I have the impression that you are a clever guy but no expert as you say yourself. Tuning can be fun, but a hole in the piston is definitely not funny! Read some good books on thermodynamics and combustion engines, realize that the revolution engine is a highly advanced piece of engineering and ask yourself what you actually want to accomplish on a try and error basis and what risk you are willing to take.

J-D
 

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SNAFU
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Eduardo,

J-D is correct, the VE tables are the result of a lot of testing and development and I doubt the simple change from the stock pipes to a ~ equal length exhaust will change them that radically. You should see more of a convergence of the VE tables with the JM's but there are other factors that contribute to the different VE's so they will never converge. Without an AFR sensor on BOTH down tubes playing with the VE tables independently will be a lot of trial and error.

You don't need to go any leaner, what you need to do is take the existing dyno run charts, look for the peaks and valleys and use them as a starting point. Valleys usually indicate lean spots, sharp drop off indicate the Ion sensor backing off timing (lean with detonation). Peaks indicate optimal settings so analyze the map at this points to see what you can take from there and apply to the valleys. Once you make those adjustments pull a data log to make sure you're not getting detonation then take the bike to the dyno and see what the results are.

To get this right is going to be an iterative effort that probably can't be accomplished in one dyno session but the end result should be a very smooth and powerful package. :2cents:
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jan-Dirk and MJ

Thanks!


I'm no expert, you better believe it, but very resourceful and can understand almost anything except gender changers :yak: and pedophiles :chair: . To tailor the tables on the RT for my new exhaust, do I really need a dyno? I guess yes. I have my AFR's from 4000 RPM up, the 110.9hp peak graph is dead with an Elmo paint, I guess I can pull it from the dyno computer. I have one with 110.1 as one of the pulls with same config but all were almost same shape. Very smooth no sudden drops. I already had a map modified where I took the valley RPM spread and made it richer, it feels better with it. I guess now I go back check the horsies and another AFR reading. Will having the thing on the exhaust change the shapes (the 4 gas analyser). Slightly better hp peak numbers were that way but a bit jagged up high rpm's.

I'm sorry I've got to run. Cell phone and beepers won't stop I bet someone screwed. I'll be back, just like Arnold said. Thak you, and thank you again!
 

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Banned
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There are Much More Technical People on Our forum that Know Numbers and such much better then I!In fact most of you know my spelling sucks too but!I do know that we Disabled our Ion"Knock Sensor" long ago in the quest for power.We first thought that the computer was retarding the timing when the NOS system kicked in because it would rattle the Piston"sensing detonation".I learned the rear cylinder was a completely different cylinder and like things a little differently.As J-D said it Sucks breaking stuff,but sometimes that how you learn.I'm not sure in the future if it's better to Tune each cylinder manually"with jets" or to try and tune with the Fuel Tables base map and each cylinder? :confused: I will cross that when I get there.I do know Sam has a Trick New Clutch setup that I can't wait to Try! :twisted:
 

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backcracker
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735 Posts
Ok, I have a question regarding the RT. It will be coming in in one week and I have 2 different oppurtunities for dynoing. 1 guy is a smaller shop that he uses someone elses dyno and charges 120 per hour, I trust the guy with everything else with the bike. The other is a HD dealer that has a great rep for dynoing Rods. The HD charges a flat rate of 350 no matter how long it takes. 1 hour or 10 hrs=350. I will be topless, RT, Samson Ripsaws( I know, loss of power). I guess my question would be, how long should it take to dyno? If more than 3 hours, I have my answer. Thanks guys.
 

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Banned
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Dan,
As a fellow Healer I have to look out for ya Brother!If you go the HD Route"$350" bring another set of pipes or something else to test along with it.Thats allot of coin to drop on a setup that's not going to be Very Impressive!Loud as Hell,but thats about it! ;) What are you after?Noise,Power,fuel milage,?If you had a spare set he could make you a tune for each setup and depending on what you want "Speed/Noise" you could switch pipes and RT Programs and have it all! :thumb:
 

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backcracker
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735 Posts
I am looking for a mix of things but having an extra set of pipes is a pretty good idea. I've been planning on getting my pipes modded so I guess I could take both sets and have them do that. Great idea!! Great idea? Another 150!! Good Lord, I am definitely gonna have to be ready to move out. She is gonna kill me. :whack:
Thanks Kaz
 

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Autobanmod
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9,901 Posts
Dan,
Please try and post some tuning tables and data files when you are done with it.
Some remarks to the choice of dyno:
A good tune takes some hours, not the dyno but the evaluation of data.
Check if both have exhaust gas sensors on the stand.
Ask if they are willing to offer warranty on their work as good tuners usually do.
Good luck with it.
J-D
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Seems too expensive either way. If so good they should charge per hp. I would go with the dealer since they have experience with this motorcycle and should know the RT. The other guy will spend his time depending on how his say goes. He could do it in two hours or in four if on a "slow" day. Some guys will never say no to anything to "work" for your money. This regardless of their capacity to actually make the bike more powerful.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey! Does having the thing in the exhaust shift the curve toward rich or lean? If it has more backpressure or flow resistance I mean.
 

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Fireman/investigator
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1,965 Posts
Good question eduarprmd..... I was wondering the same thing.
Greg
 

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Autobanmod
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9,901 Posts
eduarprmd said:
Hey! Does having the thing in the exhaust shift the curve toward rich or lean? If it has more backpressure or flow resistance I mean.
no, not noteworthy
It is like a rectal thermometer, you can still fart with it.
 

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Banned
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12,582 Posts
:rofl:
 

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FASTESTSTKBLTDRV
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1,267 Posts
Super Kaz said:
There are Much More Technical People on Our forum that Know Numbers and such much better then I!In fact most of you know my spelling sucks too but!I do know that we Disabled our Ion"Knock Sensor" long ago in the quest for power.We first thought that the computer was retarding the timing when the NOS system kicked in because it would rattle the Piston"sensing detonation".I learned the rear cylinder was a completely different cylinder and like things a little differently.As J-D said it Sucks breaking stuff,but sometimes that how you learn.I'm not sure in the future if it's better to Tune each cylinder manually"with jets" or to try and tune with the Fuel Tables base map and each cylinder? :confused: I will cross that when I get there.I do know Sam has a Trick New Clutch setup that I can't wait to Try! :twisted:
KAZ
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT MTC LOCK-UP CLUTCH? JUST GOT OURS BACK
TODAY REALLY A GREAT JOB.(SAME AS TRIPPS).SHOULD MAKE LAUNCHING
REAL CONSISTANT.
 

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Banned
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Rick,
Yes I have .I talled to Sam about it and he said for the Track it Great but I will be still taking a few road Trips! :diablo: He has a New Special Clutch thats Perfect for a Super Hi HP Street Bikes.I'll gets some more info if you want. :cool:
 

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FASTESTSTKBLTDRV
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1,267 Posts
Kaz
Yes, Yes, Yes, I Need A Clutch For Mine,that Will Survive The Track
And Street,i Had Planned On Barnet's Extra Plate Clutch Kit.
Let Me Know Please.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How about Zipper's extra plate clutch kit? Is it Barnett made?

On the sodomy on the V-Rod thing I noted a HP change with it up in there. I gess it could very slightly switch the whole hp curve up a bit if the bike needed more backpressure. But the question would be, say if you had SuperTrapps and the V-Rod was tuneable with it, by increasing back pressure am I causing a richer or a leaner condition? I know it gives what the program says and that it is rather fixed with these systems, rephrased, if you have it dialed for say 12 disks end cap on and then you remove everything, wil it make it starve for fuel or not? I don't care about what happens in real life, this is all theory please.
 

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Twisted!!!!!!!
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1,471 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:laugh: Will it muffle the fart? Is seepage a problem? What kind of thermometer do you use? Is it disposable? Cause I'm not cleaning that shit. Literally :laugh: .

Actually a reccomendation. I would still get the race tuner before anything else but if money is a problem make sure you have a laptop that has a serial cable connection. My RT just got about 130 bucks more expensive. Only the Targus solution trying to double as a docking station worked and it's 80 or 90 bucks if I can recall. The Belkin should work but nobody around had one in stock. The Keyspan will not work and all I got was "Lost PCM sync".

Trying to change a parallel to a serial connection did not work either and you need a gender changer :yak: for that.
 
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