Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
COOLER RIDER
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can the RT be taken off and put back on with no problems. I would like to try the preset Forcefire race module. I'm thinking just load the stock file and replace the RT with the forcefire? The bike was also flashed before the RT, will this effect the forcefire? I know the RT is married to my ecm but thinking maybe a little time apart? but I want to make sure I can go back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
I believe the race tuner is just used to access your ECM, whether to read data for logging, or to reprogram the ECM. But once it's disconnected it's like it was never there. I think you should be able to put anything else on there and it should work fine.

Though it might not be that easy to re-load a stock map with the race tuner. I don't remember the race tuner coming with a stock file. You may have to enter what a stock file looks like, or have your dealer do the stock download..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
OKIE said:
Can the RT be taken off and put back on with no problems. I would like to try the preset Forcefire race module. I'm thinking just load the stock file and replace the RT with the forcefire? The bike was also flashed before the RT, will this effect the forcefire? I know the RT is married to my ecm but thinking maybe a little time apart? but I want to make sure I can go back.
The RT consists of 2 parts: the software that knows nothing about the specific bike/ECM and the dongle which is the hardware piece of the set up. It's the dongle that "marries" the ECM, i.e. it saves the s/n and it can't be erased. So it's not entirely correct to say "take off" or "put on" the RT, you're not really taking anything off or putting anything on (other than connecting/disconnecting the cable), all you're doing is using a tool to program your ECM and then disconnect it when you're done. (in contrast to the PCIII, for example).

As far as determining if the ECM has ever been programmed with RT (telling if the RT was ever "there") there's a special bit (flag) in the ECM that gets set once it's been programmed so H-D can tell (that's how they void your warranty). One thing I'm not sure about is if there're separate bits for RT vs. Scanalizer, maybe Mark knows.
 

·
SNAFU
Joined
·
13,094 Posts
Okie,

As stated above the Race Tuner can load programs into the ECM but it can't read the program data, only the program file name. Also, the only base programs you can load into the ECM are the SE files, Harley doesn't provide a copy of the original stock program. The only way to get back to stock would be to have the dealer load it for you using their Digital Technician system.

It apears the "ForceFire" module is a version of the Techlusion preset and with the proper connectors aka the HD Race Fueler. It plugs in between the bike and the ECM so there's no direct interaction with the ECM or the program loaded. Since it's preset you would need to know the base ECM settings the unit is preset to support. If it's the OEM program then whatever RT map you load will probably cause the setup to be a little on the rich side.

Assuming you have your current RT program saved to disk I would do the following.

1. Load the RT base map into the ECM for the 16ga SE pipes (closest to your setup)
2. Install the ForceFire module
3. Tweak the setting on the ForceFire as per their setup to reduce the rich condition.

Once you're done you can remove the ForceFire and reload your current map into the ECM.

Your other option would be to replace step 1 above with a visit to the dealer to have them install the base OEM map into the bike.
 

·
FASTESTSTKBLTDRV
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
OKIE said:
Thanks. I think I'll go back stock with my old pipes :yak: awhile and see if that cures the gas in oil problem. Then try the Force Fire. Thanks for the replies.
NOT SURE WHAT YOUR TRYING TO DO? IF YOU ALLREADY HAD
AN R/T WHY BUY AN INJECTOR DRIVER? IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO
SMELL SOME GAS IN YOUR OIL,ESP. IF YOU LIVE IN COLDER CLIMATE
AS THEY RUN RICH UNTILL OPER. TEMP. OR DURING BREAK IN. JUST
CURIOUS.
 

·
COOLER RIDER
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The gas in oil is bugging me. The injectors are not leaking down and everything I've read here leads me to beleive it's a very rich condition. It's been to the tuner so many times I've lost faith. Figured I'd go back to stock just to see if it might solve the problem. Then maybe try the force system. Unlike the RT I can resell the force fire.
 

·
FASTESTSTKBLTDRV
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
OKIE said:
The main thing that bothers me is others have told me I'm probably washing out the rings. I even took it across state to have it tuned. :banghead:
HOW MUCH GAS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?IS YOUR OIL CONSUMPTION
CHANGED?MORE OIL,IN OTHER WORDS IS THE LEVEL RISING?
WHEN TUNED WAS IT UNDER LOAD?WHAT WAS YOUR AIR/FUEL RATIO
SET AT WHEN TUNED?HOW MANY MILES ARE ON IT?
 

·
COOLER RIDER
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When I change the oil it reeks of gas and seems water thin. Which gives me tranny concerns also. I don't notice an increase in level. Don't know how they set the AFR but it was a load dyno. I had to beg to get a copy of the file. It has 7K miles. I only changed the oil once before going to pipes and RT (bought bike used) but don't remember the gas smell.
This gas in oil just seems so unnatural. How can something run this good (117 to 121hp) and still have blowby?
I guess I need to do a oil test but I just kept hoping they would tune it out.
 

·
COOLER RIDER
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What I really think is the RT has so many points it can be tuned (and can be off) it is hard to get a tech to take the time to check every point. They are just half assing it. Going back to stock would tell me if the problem was in fact tuning or mechanical.
 

·
Twisted!!!!!!!
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
OKIE, why not do one last dyno with the gas analyser, get the graph and post it here. You absolutely HAVE TO do a datalog of that particular run. The beautiful thing about the RT is just that, it has many points to tune, making it more flexible and a more precise tuning tool. The AFR will be real time, so will the datalog. If it is not really rich, then it's not. I've got many MENTAL issues, I'm talking many here, with my V-Rod and that creates anxiety. Once I got it real good, I took her somewhere else and it got even better. Is your fuel mileage acceptable?
 

·
COOLER RIDER
Joined
·
5,180 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am in a very awkward position with my dealer. I do their paint work and can not afford to be a bother. This last time I left it for weeks and requested the best tuner (Tony) to work it over good on the low end. He has been promoted to service manager and did not get around to it. He had another Tech look at it and all he did was adjust the AFR at idle.
I have a buddy that is getting a new dyno and is the best tuner in town but he is just setting up shop and is on hold with Dynojet. I guess I'll just hold off and hope I'm not doing damage.
 

·
Twisted!!!!!!!
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
Datalog and at least make sure no knock sensor activation. Peace of mind.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top