Max, where are you??

Jim

 

I read about this awhile ago and it makes sense, I am not sure if Max tested it or not. I will be watching this closely

 

I think the misconception about this Trask IC is the air should be moving out and not in. Meaning the air enters between the engine and IC and flows out and inot your leg. So to be effective the scoop needs to be on the back if the IC and not on the outside...does this make sense?

 

If that is correct, than a scoop won't do anything. I guess I don't understand? Why is the air coming from the motor side of the IC? That doesn't make sense? It would also mean that your sucking hot air from the engine into the IC which in effect makes the IC useless. If that is the case, then all you would have to do is reverse the IC if there is something in it's design that is causing the air to flow from the engine side? I guess I'm not seeing how the IC is directional with the airflow? What is causing this flow?

 

I think you'd be better off pulling air thru the IC with fan's. You could even go as far as put them on a intake air temperature sensor and modulate them if you didn't like them on all the time.

 

How am I misunderstanding this? I thought the air blowing across the intercooler cooled the air down moving theru the charge tube? What difference does it make if this air is from the back of the intercooler or the front?

 

It does not matter what side the air hits the fins of the IC. The only concern about sucking hot air is at slow speed or idle. When you are moving the airflow in the area of the IC is excellent. (put your Intake air sensor in that area and logg data and you will see what I am talking about) If you can fabricate a directional scoop you will increase the effectiveness of the IC to some degree. The answer to me lays in cost benifit and result!

You guys are missing the point. You're right, it does not matter which way the air moves. I am only saying, it makes sense to build a scoop on the side that is already the "intake" side. (which ever that may be)

Making a directional scoop that works against the natural flow would be less efficient...

However , IF the air rushes between the engine and IC, then out through the IC as I suggested, then it would probably pick up some heat from teh engine and be able to carry less heat from the IC. Putting a scoop on that side with some heat shield may be helpful.

But at this point you are grasping at minimial gains. If you read what Max said in the beginning, the air flow is not the point. It is just a heat soak between boosts. Air flow is not that important to this as it is with a radiator or oil cooler...You boost once, the IC absorbs some of that generated heat. By the time you boost again, the IC has given most of that heat off no matter where the air came from or went...

I don't think there is a lot you can do to improve this set up other than turning the IC 90° and then it would look dumb.

 

How about using a scooped air box and run a duct from the back side of the IC ?

 

It does not matter what side the air hits the fins of the IC. The only concern about sucking hot air is at slow speed or idle. When you are moving the airflow in the area of the IC is excellent. (put your Intake air sensor in that area and logg data and you will see what I am talking about) If you can fabricate a directional scoop you will increase the effectiveness of the IC to some degree. The answer to me lays in cost benifit and result!

 

I have a fan mounted on the outside to help cool during shutdown between races at the drag strip. The IC gets pretty hot being above the turbo. Ran out of time to do more Mods. It would work better if it was flat against the IC to pull the air through. The fan was alittle to long to mount inside the IC, need a shorter one. I origanally had a big computer fan tempoarily mounted to the back side and I will let you guess what happened to the fan LOL. But it worked as long as it lasted.

 

How is it that air cooled Harleys can sit and idle for a long time in traffic, or hold up to "parade duty" without overheating? There is not much air flow then?

The answer is because of the large surface area of the cooling fins that are exposed to outside air. Moving or not, it is enough to keep the engine at a safe temp. for quite some time.

 

Heat

The 2009's Road Glide street glide whatever have the rear cyliinder not firing while at idle to act as an air pump to help while idling. Jim

 

Quit gripping the bike with your knees every time you grab a hand full of throttle and your intercooler will have a lot more air flow...:stilpoke:

 

Id Be Willing To Bet That You Wouldn't Run The Bike Long Enough To Truly Get The Effect Of A Scoop, Seems To Me It Would Take The 15-20 Seconds Yall Run These Thing Out Before It Would Cool Off Enough To Do Much Of Anything.... So I Guess It Wouldn't Be Worth It But Hell Rig One Up And Give Her A Shot

 

Yup, I think you are correct. A fan would probably do more than a scoop anyways. It was just a thought, back to the drawing board

 

If Someone Sends Me Their Intercooler I Could Build A Mock Up Scoop To Try

 

The IC is just like an oven with the door open... it is what it is.

 

Yeah, I was just having one of my senior moments . I'm back to normal now, the doc uped my Lexipro from 2 mg's to 20 so I'll be ok here in a minute

 

This subject has opened many can of worms...

The IC is there as a added safe measure of releasing heat from the system.

Will the IC cool the air going into the charged tube? $1,000,000 question

The amount of cooling it does is a game of numbers or should I say degrees.

The air pressure around the bike will cause some heat to dissapate...will it cool enough to allow you to increase your boost... again a play with degrees. I even think Max played with some fans did he not.

As a safe measure it is a heat sink to help allow heat to escape into the air. Prolonging the life of the engine.

Does it cool the air going into the charge tube? You choose.

Think about this. When you run your bike you run it for 8 - 10 seconds in boost.
Heat is generated.. The IC cools how much and at what rate of time.

Now it has been stated and said many of times that the IC is not made for Round Robin Rounds of Drag Racing.

Why ? At some point and time it will saturate with all the heat and become part of the charge tube.

When this happens the the IC has no function.

I am not trying to start an arguement and do not want one...this is just my statement on how I see the IC to function.


rod

 

won't get one from me, what yall got me thinking about is what is the best way to help get more air to the heat sink to help it last longer or possibly cool better

 

Is the added protection worth 700$...

:them:

Rod

 

30 * = 1%
...thank you Sir

I have 155 hp so 1% would equal 1.5 hp more.

I agree that if there would be ample air flow the IC, and the size was correct with the cfm being put into the IC would be and added bonus...

How can one tell if there is ample air flow?

Temp sensors in the tube before the IC and in the IC and After the IC would be a nice set up for testing. :broke:

But to make it so it is functional and style to the bike.

 

Too many people in this thread haven't had experience with turbocharged applications.

Oxygen content and temp are king.
I've seen many ways to improve the current setup. If your boosted application is running an intake air temp more than 10-20% over ambient, then it need's help. I'm not saying that a system with a compressed charge temp above range is unsafe. I'm saying that its not optimal.

I run a single turbo on a 359ci 6 cylinder over 6bar and still maintain an intake air temp near ambient temp all without an intercooler. There are many options out there.

If you have an inercooler and want to increase your efficiency, there are many options out there.

Some are incredibly simple. In fact a few can be done with no more than a trip to home depot and auto zone.

~WS~

 

Please share some of your experience with us!

 

my two drugs of choice are water/methanol injection and nitrous.

Many people forget that nitrous has an immense cooling effect. By the way, turbos love nitrous. A small jet of nitrous set at the correct point in your intake tract will give you a hit like you wouldn't believe.

CO2 cooling bulbs help as well.

For those that have an intercooler, try using water(or other fluids with even greater heat transfer properties) externally on your intercooler. All your cooler does is transfer heat from the CA (charge air) to atmosphere. Help it out. By spraying/misting the fins you increase the heat transfer.

Also run a boost gauge and a drive pressure gauge. I'd be interested to see what the drive pressure is in relation to the boost.

I wasn't trying to sound like a smart a$$, I apologize for coming across that way last night.

 

Thanks for the info and you did not sound like a smart ass to me.