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'02 Anodized Club
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks,

Visited a nearby (NJ) dealer last night and discussed v-rods. Counter to some of the posts here, the rep was a younger guy (Buell rider) who liked V-rods and seems to understand them pretty well for what they are (and aren't). But then, he could see I was one of those guys who wouldn't be attracted to any other Harley but the V-rod, so I figure he was smart enought to smile and nod a lot whether he agreed with me or not.

Anyway: I'm here to ask about invoice and MSRP. Two examples from this dealer (their initial offer):

--New '03 stock Anniversary edition was MSRP'd at $17.9, but offered at $1K off to get the deal at $16.9.
--New '04 stock VRSCB was offered at $17.2.

Now, I'm a long way from negotiating with him, but I'd appreciate your help:

--What is Dealer invoice (% or $) on these units?
--What kind of givebacks/incentives does HD offer the dealers?
--Should the large number of stores here in NJ and a fairly large number of v-rods floating around the area make a difference, or does HD have some base price the Dealers have to meet to get allocation next year?
--Do these salesreps run on monthly quotas, and can the best deal be made on the last day of the month?

If I could find a resouce like Edmunds for HD, I'd search it for answers, so apologies to what might be basic questions to the forum.

Regards,

Banglenot
 

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Metal Guitarist
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5,201 Posts
GOOD QUESTIONS, I WISHED I KNEW.
my dealer wanted almost $19,000 for a '03 with gold key package.
I talked him down to $17,900, i also did not have a down payment and had to go through the bank.
I basically Pi$$ed him off (the owner) by saying i could go to Barnett's and pick one up tomorrow for $17,900, he said i was bluffing, and if i brought him the cash that day he would let it go for the same price.
Should have seen the look on his face when i pulled back into the dealership..he hauled a$$ into the back. the salesman told me he said "Oh $hit" when i pulled in.But it was too late for him to go back on his word.
 

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spit happens
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5,534 Posts
I picked up my 03 for $16,995.back in Aug 03.They gave me a cleaning kit,3 free oil changes,and a battery tender.
 

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Chad 02 V-ROD
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1,364 Posts
Something else that I find funny If you buy the bike drive it down the road and try to trade it in you won't get close to what you paid for it. That's fair.
:alien: :deal: ;)
 

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20 Eyes in my Head
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5,557 Posts
He Banglenot,

Where are you located? I have found some great deals around Michigan, my home. The VRSCA isn't a fast seller here in my area of Michigan and most dealers have 2003's left. Every HD dealer I have been to lately has said they are picking up steam though. I think it's finally sinking in that this is the BEST bike they make for fun! Here is the NADA book price:


HARLEY-DAVIDSON
2003

DUE TO CUSTOM FEATURES SUCH AS CHROME, PAINT, ENGINE MODIFICATIONS, AND MARKET CONDITIONS, SOME VALUES MAY INCREASE BY AS MUCH AS 10%-30%.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Road/Street
Model: VRSC V-ROD (**)
Piston Displacement (CCs): 1,130
Stroke: 4
Cylinders: 2
Speeds: 5
Dry Weight: 596
Low Retail: $14,155
Average Retail: $18,620

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Optional Equipment
Exhaust-High Performance (Street): Low: $160 Avg.: $185
Security Alarm System: Low: $60 Avg.: $70

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totals
Total Low Retail: $14,375
Total Average Retail: $18,875




This is cut and pasted from the NADA book. I got mine for $16,721 out the door. 15,200 bike, 500 for four year warranty, 918 tax, and 43 for title/plates. This is the BEST deal on a new 2003 VRSCA I had found in almost 6 months of searching!!! This was at Shiawassee Motorsports (small Harley dealer in the Mid-Michigan woods! LOL). The next best deal was at Cummings Harley in Flint Michigan. $17,044 out the door on a VRSCA 2003 with a one year warranty. They have a great service dept too. I trusted them with my old bike.

Happy Hunting!

Later,
Gary
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
NADA or Kelly pricing for an '03 is used, if this is an untitled bike then those numbers aren't accurate.

Those prices look to be MSRP. The dealer paid between $14500 - 14900 depending on incentives, volume, etc for the '03 VRSCA. Based on these margins my guess is the '04 VRSCB cost the dealer between $14,000 - $14,500. I don't know if there's any hold back on the bikes like there are on cars and there's currently nothing published quoting the "invoice" price for bikes. Those numbers I quoted are second hand from a couple of salesman at various dealerships.

The amount of time the bike has been at the dealership also effects the price. Dealers buy their bikes on credit known as floor plan. They pay between .5 and 1.5% interest on the loan per month. If the '03 has been there for 6 months then it's entirely possible that the dealer has invested another $870 over and above what he has to pay the bank after he sells you the bike. Being realistic I'd say the dealer has !$15,500 into the '03 so $16,900 is a fair price ($1400 margin) so long as he doesn't then add setup fees, extended warranties, etc.

I personally think that if you can negotiate and Out The Door price at or below MSRP then you've gotten a good deal.

Dealers in Central Florida are back to MSRP on the V-Rods and tend to not deal a whole bunch. I suspect that as spring approaches the same thing will happen up north.

Your mileage may vary ;)
 

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Premium Member
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7,727 Posts
In July of 2003 I picked up my 2-tone for 16,300 brand new and the same dealer was later selling anodized for 14,700. With this I got free first service, 15% off anytime, as many times as I want, and my wife got a $60 sweatshirt. Add to these prices tax (700) and license (50) and it was mine. What I did was research on the net especially cycletrader.com and printed the top 10 prices. I brought them to the owner and he matched the 2nd lowest as it was within 200 miles and he knew I would drive to it if I had to. The dealer works with the local Credit Union so I also got 4.9 for 60. I am very happy with the way it all worked out.

By the way this is HD of Appleton Wisconsin PLUG PLUG PLUG Good Place!

Ken
 

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'02 Anodized Club
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970 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks -- first numbers

Here's what the research says (and I'm inviting dialog on what I've learned so far):

New: belief across the boards is that HD Dealers pay about 15%+ off MSRP. Not clear what allocations (new units) or givebacks are involved. Floor prices involve .5-1.5% per month in inventory costs (and I've got to believe that current rates are 7-9% on carried inventory, given historically low risk-free rates and low primes), so I figure .8%/month makes sense.

Used: looking at closed deals on ebay (open deals or bids are anyone's guess) says a sold stock 2002 averages $14.4 for 2-4K mileage. Options get essentially no return on investment. Smaller number of 2003's are at $15-16, same mileage range. 2004 VSRC A's and B's split about $400-600 difference on the market. Again, add-ons mean essentially nothing on resale price.

Negotiation on the market: Stock 2002 should be $14-15. 2003 should be $15+K, new or used -- premium perhaps on getting the warranty. 2004 should be agressively negotiated for $15-16, but 2 year warranty is a good thing. Quite a bit of room to play on the 2004 warranty -- dealer offers $800+ for 4-year warranty, good buyer gets it for $400-500.

But: if 2004 A model is MSRP at $17.2, dealer is getting it for $14.6 at 85% invoice -- MSRP. 80% is $13.7. Tax, prep etc additional. If the rep gets $500 to sell the bike, then the dealer will expect a total of $1K to let is go out the door in heavy competition. Springtime prices are higher, of course -- but next year's allocations are set in July, and if bikes aren't sold by then it looks bad for the dealer the next year (dealers told me that July is when they advertise discounts off MSRP). So, best time to buy is late June, theoretically. But, who wants to waste half the summer to get a K off the deal? Decisions....

Anyway, here's what seems to me to be the plan. If a stock 2004 B is out there for $17.2, negotiation should be able to get it for $16 + or so. If everything lines up, getting it for $15+ is a real win. Add $400 for the A model. Cash, no financing (tell them you'll pay cash as you sign the papers -- I assume HD makes money on financed deals and will let a bike go for less if they believe it's to be financed through them).

Thoughts?

Best to all--looking forward to your ideas. :deal:
 

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20 Eyes in my Head
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Mr. Freeze

That is comparable to the Toledo area dealers I looked at too. They have a great sales dept from what I could tell. Seemed pretty reasonable anyways, but i whent with a local dealer.

Later,
Gary
 

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I have found up here in Michigan that.. yes.. the v rods are slow sellers( and NO RESPECT for the Harley crowd)... Northwoods Harley in Gaylord has 3 03 left with custom paint sets with price tags of 20,000 plus... so they'll be there FOREVER!!!!!!

Can someone tell me the big attraction of a NEW bike... in a thousand years I can't imagine walking into a dealer... paying MSRP (or more), set up, frt, full sales tax, forced maintenace, blah, blah blah for a STOCK BIKE... THEN if you do want an extra or two... you pay near retail for that AND pay them to install it... and maybe not get you stock part...

spend a couple afternoons running around with a pocket full of 100's...looking at bikes for sale... they only have 1500-2000 miles on them and believe me you'll quietly smile to yourself everytime someone mentions how much they have in their new bike.

regarding extra's on a used bike.... let's face it.. when we pick the model bike we want.. we have in our minds eye what we want it to look like when we are "done". With that said... I give options I want on a bike some real value if they are already there... espessilly expensive ones that I know I would never REALLY spend my money on after the fact because they are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive (chome hand control, harley slotted foot controls, etc) with that said.. I give options I KNOW I want a value of about 50-60% of retail.

I'm new to this.. only 2 years.. but I'm on my forth Harley... buying USED with options works for me.

regards to all
 

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Premium Member
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2,992 Posts
'03

I bought my Two Tone Annie July 31st at the end of the dealer allocation period which means any '03's left over in their inventory on August 1st counts against their '04 allotment inlcuding Twin Cam models. I did an Internet search from eBay to Cycletrader and all stops in between and found the best deal in Colorado for $16,000 which included shipping and prep fees. I would have to pay the license fees & sales tax on my own. I sent that around to dealers in CA and after 2 weeks got an offer from a SF Bay Area dealer to sell me the same bike for $16,300 all inclusive except I'd have to pay the license fees and sales tax. It would have cost me more than $300 to go fetch it from Colo and it would have been a major hassle trying to register a 49 state bike in Arnold's "Colliefornia" Hope this helps you.
 

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I also wanted to buy used, but used v rods in my area were slim pickings. People added options I mey or may not wanted and were asking way more than new pricing..
 

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20 Eyes in my Head
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Extra's....HA HA HA! That is as good as one saying they bought a Harley for the "re-sale" value! With 3 newer engines on the market, good luck getting fair for an evo, and FORGET getting anything out of a pre 2003 Sportster! Everyday I see prices people ask for Sportsters, and all the other standard Harley's, knowing they will be lucky to get NEARLY 60% the $$$ they sunk into it. How about the Harley standard crowd that think they're doing thmeselves great equity building justice by buying 100% Screamn Eagle parts so they can "get more return on there investment!". Yes these people are out there in droves! I work with one of the lead lemming's that's got the 2001 Heritage Softail Classic, about a gagillion dollars into chrome trinkets and such (not one cent into performance). The poor sap thinks that it was like putting money in the bank! There is absolutely know way he will ever get the near $30k he's got into the entire bike. Oh yeah, 3 years agoe he bought the bike brand new....and it's only got less than 500 miles on it!

gthong said "regarding extra's on a used bike.... let's face it.. when we pick the model bike we want.. we have in our minds eye what we want it to look like when we are "done"...." I very much agree.

I am buying the VRSCA for ME and for ME only! No regrets, nobody to impress, just me and my bike! I will lose my ass from a financial perspective I am sure, but man, some of those days hanging with friends or unwinding on those smooth curves of the country roads, time with my daughter enjoying the breeze, or taking my lady for a ride up in the hills for a "picnic"...you cannot put $$$ value on that! This is why I ride! I hung onto my Sportster for 5 years...after telling myself I just wanted it to "learn on" and then I'd get me a "big twin"! Well, I liked it too much to part with it. I can easily see this happening with my 2003 VRSCA....only keeping her for 10 years! If I like a bike or car, or heck, even my old Craftsman riding mower...I keep'em!

Later,
Gary
 

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Do It Movin...
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banglenot:
I got my 03' out of KY in July for $15400, plus 500 shipping...

If you like chrome, It seems to me that the new 03, 28 tooth kit, and 4-year warranty would be the most cost effective way to go.

Now would be a good time, where ever you go try to choose a cold rainy day with cash in hand.
 

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Premium Member
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even my old Craftsman riding mower

Gary,
Stay tuned to American Chopper, they'll be airing an episode called the DIXIE BIKE. It's a beautifully crafted chopper with riding mower engine that the boys pumped up to 120 HP! The spokes are chromed lawn mower blades!
 

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Hi, new to the group and still looking for a v-rod. I've found a bike I'm going to loook at tonight. 02 with a few accessories, 2400 miles asking 14k. still under extended warranty. I think it's a good deal. considering dealiship is asking 19k+ for new stock bikes with the same mileage or more. Anything I should look for before buying? I'm used to old school ironheads, and know very little about the vrod. thanks guys.
 

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'02 Anodized Club
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
mbtreker--

Couple of ideas:

-- Looked at ebay closed deals and here's the data:

10-Mar 2003 $15.1 2300mi
10-Mar 2002 17.5 1600
7-Mar 2002 13.8 1700
7-Mar 2002 14.9 695
9-Mar 2002 14.5 450
11-Mar 2004 16.5 1000

Check them out to get real comparisons to negotiate with. The above varied widely in terms of accessories -- but there is not premium for them, so don't think you've got to pay for all the stuff a seller attaches.

--You might want to post a new thread (if you haven't done the deal already) to get wider view of your alternatives.

--I'm still looking myself, so I'm not the best guy for valid info on quality of used v-rods. The answers I got to the question of used quality was pretty positive, tho --

Good luck--
 
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