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Discussion Starter #1
I spoke to Ernie (BPP) and he indicated that on one of the V-Rods that he is working on, they completely removed the plastic air box (topless & bottomless). Also, I think that is the way Kaz is running. Can I get some opinions on the positives and/or negatives of this setup.

Thank You in Advance
Frank
 

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Greg/Moderator
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Frank ....Running no air cleaner on the street is a big NO NO. Everyone that has pulled off the cover has seen the mess inside the cleaner box. Without some kind of filter system the motor will suck all kinks of junk in it. Kaz's on the other seems to have a good system with the KN set up he is using.I would like to see some dyno #'s to see how it works . Kaz's is the small filter used to vent the rear cam cover and or engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
VrodG

I was not planning on running without some sort of filters. I agree that would not be wise. What I am talking about is running topless and bottomless with a single filter or multiple filters like (KAZ the innovator)
 

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Greg/Moderator
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Without making a new base plate or modding your original, I think that you will have to run a set up like Kaz.I thought you knew better not to run it with out air cleaners , but wanted to throw that in.
 

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Color me Gone
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Frank my own thought on that is that the bottom of the filter works as a buffer between head heat and the intake plenum. I want to keep hot air out since the cooler the air the more dense it is and the better hp I can create with it. If anything on these lines it might be that since so many are running topless that a sheild all the way around to make sure that the engine is getting air from above the filter area might be more in line. IMHO
 

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Color me Gone
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Frank I'll go one step further and this is stealing from what I see car engines doing these days. I think the trick to stealing a few extra ponies is in the velocity stacks themselves. And I don't mean longer or shorter and I don't think that equal length exhaust need equal length velocity stacks. My own take on this is that the stacks are to smooth and lack any way of breaking the air up or to create a little havoc if you would. I think that if you had the time and money (Kaz) that some testing should be done with some small vortex generators on the edge of the stacks to get the air twisting.
 

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Max and everyone else.
Heat does rise but the way I have my AB Skin lifted and hot air is Vented.It really works at speeds since the air comes in the Top and comes out the Bottom actually aiding in the cooling process.Plus it's much cleaner and easier to do my spark plug changes!;) For ME it the best of Both worlds!:cool:
 

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Of Course!Have you seen the Pics I posted?:confused: Look under my New Race Air Filter Thread.You will be able to see.:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes,

I have looked at it many time. Just needed to open my eyes and really look. Do you see anything negative in going bottomless. More importantly what do you think are the positives. Also, do you have a clearance problems with the multi filter setup with the lid all the way down. As you know by some of my other post, with my rebuild I am going with the supertrapp exhaust. (That is until someone comes up with the PERFECT exhaust). Do you think that running shorter velocity stacks and multi filter similar to yours will work with supertrapps. If so, "I need part numbers" :diablo:
 

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Frank,
Everybodies bike is different.Dou you have a Race Tuner?Get one if not and find a good Chassie dyno guy that can get you a Baseline and Test away!I have atleast 500 passes and who knows How many hours in the Dyno Room Perfecting my combos.Not to mention how many Trips down the 1/4 mile! :D It's worth a shot so I say GO FOR IT!Keep all your stock stuff "just incase" and start of with one mod first.Never change more then one thing at a time against you basline setup.Dattalog and Testting is the way to go_Or Buy my Bike for 60k!:eek: ;) Have fun and let us know how it goes.:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Kaz,

I have the race tuner. Presently, I am at 116.7 RWHP and 81 RWT. That is after 27 dyno runs.
Also, would you have a clearance problems with the mult/uni filter setup with the lid all the way down.

Can you email me with a list of parts. RE: billet velocity stacks, and filters?
 

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I like the individual K&N, Kaz. Lest anyone be tempted to try the "pull over" UNI foam socks, (which are easy to install - one size fits all), and probably effective as dirt stoppers if they are properly oiled, they can catch fire should you have an iunadvertant lean backfire. Happened on my 914 Porsche with webers. Melted the aux venturi before I realized what was happening. Would mess up the cover pretty quickly. See other thread: http://66.17.131.140/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=16729#post16729
 

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I don't like the concept of running bottomless at all. It will let engine heat rise into the intake area, vented or not. The uni filters are the best way to go if you are running individual filters (IMNSHO). This idea isn't new by a long shot as I know a guy who has been running this way for over a year. And Max, the bikes with equal length primary pipes dyno with better numbers with equal length velocity stacks for what's it's worth. Granted a dyno without a high speed fan isn't going to replicate actual road conditions.



John
 

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Color me Gone
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Dyno in a wind tunnel is what we need for this. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
John and Max

The engine heat was what I was concerned about "cool air = more power".

The place I had my V-Rod dynoed at has two high output squirrel cage fans that they blow into the radiator. Not needed for a water cooled V-rod. The next time I get a dyno I will have them do some runs blowing the fans at the airbox simulating a high speed run and see if it makes more power.
 

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spit happens
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For the moment,I am going to trim the bottem around filter.Also going to raise lid like Kaz. The motor should only get warm air at idle or parade duty.While cruzing the wind will carry the heat away from the motor,and with the raised lid like kaz said the cool air will come in the front and out the back.It's like a ram air set up,but not sealed.
 

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I'd be a little concerned about the affect of a windshield and no bottom on the air box. I feel warm air on cool days coming up from below. I suspect the aerodynamics are very interesting at speed. Need a wind tunnel with smoke streams.
 

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I think the Bike will not get as much Warm air as you think!The sealed Box Holds allot of heat in from the motor"Heat Rising",and I know for a Fact MY Bike Runs Way Better the way it's setup compared to all the other ways I have tried!:cool:
 
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