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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, hope all is well!

I recently started riding my ‘16 muscle up in the North GA mountains more often. I noticed gearing down prior to the turns, counter steering, shifting my body and focusing or looking into the curve helps a lot. I also like to start the turns on the outside of lane (opposite end of Apex) to increase vision and space to make turns. If it is a sharp or hairpin turn I like to break slightly and gear down prior to turn and accelerate slowly or elegantly as I ride out of it.
Here are some questions/concerns- I noticed i have about 1/2”-3/4” left on back tire wall and feel like the pegs will be scraping any day, concerned that the peg will catch and causing me to wipe out? Once it is scraping do you have an inch or two of forgiveness to straighten the bike out again? 😅
Also- I went riding with a group of friends, most of them experienced riders on sports touring bikes and 1 or 2 on super sports bikes ranging between 600-1400 cc’s. I was able to catch up and hang with the group on the straights and mild turns even surpassing some of the 600’s for that matter but had to slow it down around the tighter corners. I got about 30-50 mph around these turns depending on the turn radius/degrees etc. I got blown out and ended dead last on the first run but was able to finish the 2nd run around the 6th position (6 out of 8 riders). 😂 We get a bit competitive and I don’t like it when they talk smack about Harleys. Whatever I think I did ok for the only cruiser rider. 🤷‍♂️
Anyway- it was a blast and I feel like the bike has more potential because it was super responsive on lower gears and just wanted to GO! Wanted to see what you guys are experiencing out there? I was contemplating the idea of getting a Ducati Multistrada or BMW GSX but can’t see myself letting go of my V-rod, if anything I might face the fury of my wife and add another bike to the garage but it will be a gamble. I think more practice and seat time around the mountains will help. I know you can’t really compare the bikes but I know for a fact the V-rod has a lot to give in the twisties. I’d like to get some cornering tips and see what you guys are experiencing in the mountain roads? Thanks and God bless.
 

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Mids! Helps a ton with these bikes. I gave up trying to corner with the forward controls. Mids? I can lean finally! Doesn't help with scraping unless you change exhaust. Even then you still have to contend with the radiator shrouds that will scrape. I suppose if you got real creative you could address that as well, but with the weight of these bikes I don't see the need to go to far attempting sport bike handling (it won't anyways with the rake unfortunately...).
 

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Mids! Helps a ton with these bikes. I gave up trying to corner with the forward controls. Mids? I can lean finally! Doesn't help with scraping unless you change exhaust. Even then you still have to contend with the radiator shrouds that will scrape. I suppose if you got real creative you could address that as well, but with the weight of these bikes I don't see the need to go to far attempting sport bike handling (it won't anyways with the rake unfortunately...).
Very true. I used to have the R and I was able to smoke it around corners. Thanks for the mod tips. Very true about the exhaust and radiator shrouds..
 

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I currently have both an R and a Buell, and make a trip to the smokies every year just to ride for a week. (Second week of august this year) The R is a blast, and will run away from the buell on any moderate turns and straights, but when things get technical, (think dragon) the buell is the bike to be on. Simply put the weight of the Vrod is turnings enemy. Keep doing what you’re doing, practice more, and ride your own ride.
 

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I currently have both an R and a Buell, and make a trip to the smokies every year just to ride for a week. (Second week of august this year) The R is a blast, and will run away from the buell on any moderate turns and straights, but when things get technical, (think dragon) the buell is the bike to be on. Simply put the weight of the Vrod is turnings enemy. Keep doing what you’re doing, practice more, and ride your own ride.
Man that sounds like a blast! Yeah I understand the V-rod has it’s limitations; weight, length, fat tire etc. Still love it. Thanks for the input, will continue on mine.
 

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A couple things you can do to help your F when playing around in the "twisties" (in no particular order):

- Footpegs: Get pegs that don't have the scraper on the bottom and that are angled up more. Example: RSD Moto, 45°

- Handlebar riser: I always recommend this because I think the stock "clamshell" riding position is cruel and unusual punishment for more than a few blocks. Example: Budman (approx. 0.6” rise & 2.6” pullback) riser

- Seat: Changing the seating position fairly significantly changes the riding feel-- if you do it right, you're sitting "in" the bike, not "on" the bike. Example: Bitchin Seat Company

- Clutch & brake hand levers (adjustable): Shorter reach and quicker actuation. Example: Oberon Performance adjustable

- Clutch slave cylinder: Cuts the clutch pull pressure down significantly-- makes shifts quicker, faster and easier. Example: Oberon Performance

- Exhaust pipes: The stock pipe tips will drag if you get enough lean in-- especially if you turn the rear tips down. One solution is to use the european tips-- they don't turn out or down, so provide better clearance (and they don't look bad either). Or, source an aftermarket set of pipes. Example: TAB Performance slip-on's

- Throttle sleeve insert: A 3/4" turn throttle will eliminate the slop in the stock linkage and give you a much quicker throttle roll-on/off-- which will only help coming off the apex of a turn. A few companies make grips with them, or you can replace the inner sleeve on the grips of your choice. Example: G2 (plastic) and San Diego Customs (aluminum)

- ECM reprogramming: Whichever you do, you can smooth out the hp/tq curves, and get rid of the dead spot ~4000 rpm (which is on every H-D bike for emissions purposes). Example: TTS MasterTune

- Brake & clutch fluid: Higher temperature fluid will help prevent boiling and brake fade. The trade-off is that it tends to be more hydroscopic, so more frequent flushes are required. Example: ATE Type 200

- Brake pads: The stock pads are.... ok, but if you really want to play in the twisties, upgrade. Stopping is at least as important as going. Example: Lyndall Racing Gold-Plus (#7254)

- Fork cartridges: The stock F fork is wildly undersprung and tends to have a vague, numb feel that really hampers turn-in. The fix is to replace the entire interior assembly on both legs. Expensive, but worth it. Example: Traxxion Dynamics Axxion AK-20

- Tires: I loathe Dunlops and honestly can't figure out how they stay in business. If you have the Michelin Scorcher, that's not a bad tire. But upgrading it may help your roll-in. I've been using the Metzeler ME880's (now discontinued) in a 260 in the rear-- surprisingly, due to how they're shaped, I think they make the bike handle better-- counterintuitive, I know, but they work well. Examples: Metzler Cruisetec or ME888 Marathon Ultra (both available in 260/40/18-- I'll be going with the CruiseTec as my next tire).

- Shocks: If you upgrade the front forks, you'll see how bad the rear shocks are-- again, under sprung for looks, not performance (thanks, H-D). Example: Race Tech G3-S, custom dual-IFP w/ adjustable rebound dampening.

Battery: The stock battery is both heavy and placed in just about the worst possible place for additional weight-- right up against the fork neck at the very top of the bike. There are far lighter batteries available now that don't have the issues with the original lightweight batteries. Example: Antigravity ATX12-20 lithium ion phosphate (660 cca LiFePO4)





 

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Discussion Starter #9
A couple things you can do to help your F when playing around in the "twisties" (in no particular order):

- Footpegs: Get pegs that don't have the scraper on the bottom and that are angled up more. Example: RSD Moto, 45°

- Handlebar riser: I always recommend this because I think the stock "clamshell" riding position is cruel and unusual punishment for more than a few blocks. Example: Budman (approx. 0.6” rise & 2.6” pullback) riser

- Seat: Changing the seating position fairly significantly changes the riding feel-- if you do it right, you're sitting "in" the bike, not "on" the bike. Example: Bitchin Seat Company

- Clutch & brake hand levers (adjustable): Shorter reach and quicker actuation. Example: Oberon Performance adjustable

- Clutch slave cylinder: Cuts the clutch pull pressure down significantly-- makes shifts quicker, faster and easier. Example: Oberon Performance

- Exhaust pipes: The stock pipe tips will drag if you get enough lean in-- especially if you turn the rear tips down. One solution is to use the european tips-- they don't turn out or down, so provide better clearance (and they don't look bad either). Or, source an aftermarket set of pipes. Example: TAB Performance slip-on's

- Throttle sleeve insert: A 3/4" turn throttle will eliminate the slop in the stock linkage and give you a much quicker throttle roll-on/off-- which will only help coming off the apex of a turn. A few companies make grips with them, or you can replace the inner sleeve on the grips of your choice. Example: G2 (plastic) and San Diego Customs (aluminum)

- ECM reprogramming: Whichever you do, you can smooth out the hp/tq curves, and get rid of the dead spot ~4000 rpm (which is on every H-D bike for emissions purposes). Example: TTS MasterTune

- Brake & clutch fluid: Higher temperature fluid will help prevent boiling and brake fade. The trade-off is that it tends to be more hydroscopic, so more frequent flushes are required. Example: ATE Type 200

- Brake pads: The stock pads are.... ok, but if you really want to play in the twisties, upgrade. Stopping is at least as important as going. Example: Lyndall Racing Gold-Plus (#7254)

- Fork cartridges: The stock F fork is wildly undersprung and tends to have a vague, numb feel that really hampers turn-in. The fix is to replace the entire interior assembly on both legs. Expensive, but worth it. Example: Traxxion Dynamics Axxion AK-20

- Tires: I loathe Dunlops and honestly can't figure out how they stay in business. If you have the Michelin Scorcher, that's not a bad tire. But upgrading it may help your roll-in. I've been using the Metzeler ME880's (now discontinued) in a 260 in the rear-- surprisingly, due to how they're shaped, I think they make the bike handle better-- counterintuitive, I know, but they work well on the bike. Examples: Metzler Cruisetec or ME888 Marathon Ultra (both available in 260/40/18-- I'll be going with the CruiseTec as my next tire).

- Shocks: If you upgrade the front forks, you'll see how bad the rear shocks are-- again, under sprung for looks, not performance (thanks, H-D). Example: Race Tech G3-S, custom dual-IFP w/ adjustable rebound dampening.

Battery: The stock battery is both heavy and placed in just about the worst possible place for additional weight-- right up against the fork neck at the very top of the bike. There are far lighter batteries available now that don't have the issues with the original lightweight batteries. Example: Antigravity ATX12-20 lithium ion phosphate (660 cca LiFePO4)





Wow- thanks for the detailed response. I will start looking at upgrade options just got to save some 💰. I will definitely look at the tires, suspension and pegs first.
Thanks again!
 

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I can second the battery, it made a noticeable difference losing that much weight right on the forkneck.

The Metzler Cruisetek's also made a noticeable difference over whatever brand HD puts on stock.

Ultimately (given equal riders) the weight, length, tire size, and rake are going to keep you at the tail end of that pack no matter what you do... but you'll look cooler doing it.?.?.? 😁
 

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Cornering Tips ? So ERed007 everything flybigjet says is great advice ( I'm still working off his R list ) but my question is why are you doing that twisty work on a F Model when you had an R ? Apply all that advice to an R and you've already got mid controls on it, scraping the pipe is not going to happen, suspension & ground clearance is stiffer & higher, put rear shocks on 4th highest or buy 16", do the fork kit or just put 5 wt BelRay in them, Metzler Cruisetecs are awesome especially rear with dual compound. R Model works great up there in the Smokies I've gone every year ( except about 3 years ) since 2001 so 16 visits mostly on my 3 Cyl 900cc Triumph which is a weapon on those roads and the last 5 or so on the R also. Use the right tool for the job - could I turn my R into a Muscle cruiser ? Probably but I wouldn't. I get it you've got the F bike and you want to optimize it but I see no reason to change all that and still have to deal with a fat rear tire, extended rake and lack of ground clearance that result in cornering issues. The R ain't no Triumph - it falls into corners like an animal pouncing on it's prey - the R is more like you said planning entry, exit, trail braking and looking ahead, I've got my back wheel all the way fwd. in the slot, no feeler footpegs and nothing ever scrapes - add in a 1/4 ( not a 3/4 ) G2 throttle tube and it's very competent in the mountains - for a power cruiser. That's the key - don't over do it - always pay attention, don't hug the yellow line on blind corners, look out for gravel, water and wet leaves around the corner and remember there's lots of dangers on those roads - many from people in Corvettes, Vipers, Cars, Trucks other M/C's and yes even delivery trucks driving way above their heads - crossing the yellow line - they have all tried to take me out. Never look at KillBoy photo guys they always get the crash shots. Leave a safety factor always - push it too far on a power cruiser too long up there and you will pay the price. There's a tree of shame for a reason. Don't try to keep up with sport bikes just bring up the rear & let'em go. My buddy put his new H-D full dresser off the mountain - 500 feet down, luckily he got off it first. Wear your gear, & stay safe !
 

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With the grace of God and 25+ years of off road riding & racing plus 15 years of street riding skills I haven't hung any parts on that tree yet Ceigenberger - but I'm not stupid enough to think it can't happen to me - there's lots of guys & gals that have hung their lives on that tree just look at the photo's at the base it's very humbling. There's no trophy for getting hit head on by a dip shit driver or rider coming the other way, or because you were riding over your head or your bikes capabilities, just a family that will never see you again. I've attended many bad accidents up on the tail of the dragon a few were almost me - with none of those close calls my riding's direct fault. I don't want to be "David Downer" but all I can tell someone like Red007 running a big long fat tire fwd control Muscle in the Smoky mountains is BE CAREFUL - every bike has it's limits, respect that, keep within those limits and don't push them continuously and you won't have any regrets. And regrets in the mountains can be very big. Final Mountain riding Tip - Don't ride the Tail of the Dragon on the weekend - that's when idiots ride and the cops are out in full force even with helicopters in the summer & fall - go during the week much safer - Wear your Gear - Over & Out.
 

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- add in a 1/4 ( not a 3/4 ) G2 throttle tube and it's very competent in the mountains
The throttles are the same thing, depending on what company's literature you're looking at. With the different shape of the cam where the throttle cable sits, you go from cruise to full throttle (WOT) a 1/4 turn quicker. So, it's either a "quarter-turn" (takes 1/4 turn less to WOT) or "three quarter-turn" (takes 3/4 of a normal turn to get to WOT)-- they're the same thing, just different ways of looking at it and marketing it.
 

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So flybigjet yea I looked that up on SDC's website that's very funny but incorrect "west coast world" thinking and measuring right there - To be clear quick turn throttle tubes don't go from cruise ( like 1/2 throttle ) to WOT throttle a 1/4 turn faster. They are actually a 1/4 of a full turn from idle to WOT throttle tubes designed to reduce the degrees of turn required from idle or cruise ( or any other position ) to get to WOT. With their incorrect thinking it would imply something like this - you had a 3/4 turn ( from idle to WOT ) throttle tube and you subtracted a 1/4 turn so now it's a half turn throttle from idle to WOT. No one builds a real sporty motorcycle with a throttle that requires 3/4 of a turn or even a full 1 turn to get to WOT - but maybe my 1970 minibike ? That 3/4 to 1 turn throttle would be unworkable for the Human wrist without taking one or two re-grabs of the throttle to go from idle to WOT or maybe the rider could just hold it and ride with their elbow pointing at the ground to get the rotational travel. Most sporty motorcycles have 1/4 or 3/8 total turn throttles from the factory. The VRod has a slightly more than a 1/4 but not quite a 3/8 - ( close to a 5/16 turn if the slack is adjusted out correctly ) OEM H.D. throttle tube. The G2 quick throttle tube gets my V Rod throttle down to a smidge less than a 1/4 turn ( almost down to a 3/16 but not quite total turn from idle to WOT ) so it shortens the total degrees of rotational travel by almost an 1/8 of a turn. That's it. All my other motorcycles have a quarter turn max or less total turn throttle - my off road race bike is more like the G2 more than 3/16 but less than 1/4 ( 7/32 ? ) throttle tube with all slack adjusted out. And yes, I did a giant tank slapper the first time I leaned my V Rod way over and really twisted that new G2 - it broke loose got sideways and took every racing instinct body english move I had to keep from getting low or high sided. Beware the quick turn throttle on traction limited surfaces and/or cold tires, it's not for the faint of heart or those without a bag of tricks to pull from. :(
 

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Hey guys, hope all is well!

I recently started riding my ‘16 muscle up in the North GA mountains more often. I noticed gearing down prior to the turns, counter steering, shifting my body and focusing or looking into the curve helps a lot. I also like to start the turns on the outside of lane (opposite end of Apex) to increase vision and space to make turns. If it is a sharp or hairpin turn I like to break slightly and gear down prior to turn and accelerate slowly or elegantly as I ride out of it.
Here are some questions/concerns- I noticed i have about 1/2”-3/4” left on back tire wall and feel like the pegs will be scraping any day, concerned that the peg will catch and causing me to wipe out? Once it is scraping do you have an inch or two of forgiveness to straighten the bike out again? 😅
Also- I went riding with a group of friends, most of them experienced riders on sports touring bikes and 1 or 2 on super sports bikes ranging between 600-1400 cc’s. I was able to catch up and hang with the group on the straights and mild turns even surpassing some of the 600’s for that matter but had to slow it down around the tighter corners. I got about 30-50 mph around these turns depending on the turn radius/degrees etc. I got blown out and ended dead last on the first run but was able to finish the 2nd run around the 6th position (6 out of 8 riders). 😂 We get a bit competitive and I don’t like it when they talk smack about Harleys. Whatever I think I did ok for the only cruiser rider. 🤷‍♂️
Anyway- it was a blast and I feel like the bike has more potential because it was super responsive on lower gears and just wanted to GO! Wanted to see what you guys are experiencing out there? I was contemplating the idea of getting a Ducati Multistrada or BMW GSX but can’t see myself letting go of my V-rod, if anything I might face the fury of my wife and add another bike to the garage but it will be a gamble. I think more practice and seat time around the mountains will help. I know you can’t really compare the bikes but I know for a fact the V-rod has a lot to give in the twisties. I’d like to get some cornering tips and see what you guys are experiencing in the mountain roads? Thanks and God bless.
I've scraped the pegs on my 2003 many times, never a problem, other than wear on the pegs (which I replaced recently). Go for it but the weight of the bike going into the turn is a lot greater than your pals.
 

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So flybigjet yea I looked that up on SDC's website that's very funny but incorrect "west coast world" thinking and measuring right there - To be clear quick turn throttle tubes don't go from cruise ( like 1/2 throttle ) to WOT throttle a 1/4 turn faster. They are actually a 1/4 of a full turn from idle to WOT throttle tubes designed to reduce the degrees of turn required from idle or cruise ( or any other position ) to get to WOT. With their incorrect thinking it would imply something like this - you had a 3/4 turn ( from idle to WOT ) throttle tube and you subtracted a 1/4 turn so now it's a half turn throttle from idle to WOT. No one builds a real sporty motorcycle with a throttle that requires 3/4 of a turn or even a full 1 turn to get to WOT - but maybe my 1970 minibike ? That 3/4 to 1 turn throttle would be unworkable for the Human wrist without taking one or two re-grabs of the throttle to go from idle to WOT or maybe the rider could just hold it and ride with their elbow pointing at the ground to get the rotational travel. Most sporty motorcycles have 1/4 or 3/8 total turn throttles from the factory. The VRod has a slightly more than a 1/4 but not quite a 3/8 - ( close to a 5/16 turn if the slack is adjusted out correctly ) OEM H.D. throttle tube. The G2 quick throttle tube gets my V Rod throttle down to a smidge less than a 1/4 turn ( almost down to a 3/16 but not quite total turn from idle to WOT ) so it shortens the total degrees of rotational travel by almost an 1/8 of a turn. That's it. All my other motorcycles have a quarter turn max or less total turn throttle - my off road race bike is more like the G2 more than 3/16 but less than 1/4 ( 7/32 ? ) throttle tube with all slack adjusted out. And yes, I did a giant tank slapper the first time I leaned my V Rod way over and really twisted that new G2 - it broke loose got sideways and took every racing instinct body english move I had to keep from getting low or high sided. Beware the quick turn throttle on traction limited surfaces and/or cold tires, it's not for the faint of heart or those without a bag of tricks to pull from. :(
Fair enough.

I've had both the G2 and the SDC throttle sleeves on my F and as far as I can tell, they're identical in range-- I couldn't tell one from the other, and both adjusted almost the identical amount of slack-- at least from what I could tell via thread count on the adjuster.

I will add, however, that the G2 throttle sleeve WILL melt if you use Heat Demon bar heaters. The SDC sleeve will not.

(Yes, that's the voice of experience talking. Nobody'd ever run the combination of G2 sleeve and Heat Demon's before, so I was the involuntary test dummy. It took a while and a bunch of correspondence with G2 and Avon to figure out that the G2 sleeve is made from a different type of plastic that has a much lower melting point than a normal throttle sleeve. It was an..... unpleasant surprise.)
 

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Yes, I like the plastic G2 but it works in FL. where the temp almost never requires grip heaters like CO. One day I'll get an all aluminum with Teflon liner throttle tube it'll have much less rotational drag so I can get myself in even more trouble :oops: ! but if I move to N.C and setup my 7 car stall Mountain Compound with a 850 mile backyard Smoky Mountain off road bike playground and 8,500 mile front yard street bike paradise I'll be ready for the grip heaters. I rented a BMW GS 1200 in CO. a few years ago what a blast ! All the way to 11,300 feet ( the back way to Breckenridge ) and it had grip heaters that didn't melt the throttle tube ! ( And my first grandson is named Breck, per daughter & son-in law visiting the same place ) (y):giggle:
 

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Yes, I like the plastic G2 but it works in FL. where the temp almost never requires grip heaters like CO. One day I'll get an all aluminum with Teflon liner throttle tube it'll have much less rotational drag so I can get myself in even more trouble :oops: ! but if I move to N.C and setup my 7 car stall Mountain Compound with a 850 mile backyard Smoky Mountain off road bike playground and 8,500 mile front yard street bike paradise I'll be ready for the grip heaters. I rented a BMW GS 1200 in CO. a few years ago what a blast ! All the way to 11,300 feet ( the back way to Breckenridge ) and it had grip heaters that didn't melt the throttle tube ! ( And my first grandson is named Breck, per daughter & son-in law visiting the same place ) (y):giggle:
Give me a shout next time you're in CO and we'll go ride! I've even got a spare-- you can ride the F and I'll take the GS.
 
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