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Thanks Ron for passing on your experience with this issue. I am interested if anyone comes up with some sort of documentation as to why there was no one way valving design ed for the revolution.
I understand that the Street models are revolution engines, I wonder how the crank case
venting is done on these new R engines.
 

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Thanks Ron for passing on your experience with this issue. I am interested if anyone comes up with some sort of documentation as to why there was no one way valving design ed for the revolution.
I understand that the Street models are revolution engines, I wonder how the crank case
venting is done on these new R engines.
Not really a Revo engine. I think they just used their experience with the Revo to design a loosely similar engine.
That said it's an interesting question.
Looking at the parts fiches it appears to have a pipe from each cam cover going to a T and then a pipe from the T to the air box. Doesn't seem to be a valve unless there is one hidden in the T, but considering the breather assy which consists of the T, 3 pipes and 6 clips is only £27 I doubt it has a valve in it.
 

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Thanks to Miller2908 I grabbed a Mishimoto compact catch can and fitted just beside the hooligan airbox. I used the T piece that came with the hooligan to connect up both the crankcase hoses and send it into the catch can.



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This is very interesting. If the V-twins and M8 have one way valving then why are there still oil soaked air filters out there. I keep my oil level low by .5 quart to minimize blow by in my M8. I'm guessing that this would not help with the revolution engine.
I once thought that too. At one point I could swear the breather ports on my 103 had a built-in check valve, but later when I went to check again, I could definitely blow air back into the heads. So whether a check valve is there or not, I guess they can stop working. So ended up sticking a Hayden check valve and catch-can on my RG which seemed to do the trick -- most of the time that is. If I forget to empty the can regularly, the pig starts spewing oil out it's little vent too. Oil leaks are a losing battle, one that's been raging since 1903.

The REVO doesn't have the same problem in that it tries to return collected oil back into the crankcase via gravity. It's just that the oil separator isn't big enough to trap all the oil particularly under high RPM conditions. A check valve helps a bit by maintaining a negative crankcase pressure which clips the volume being vented.
 

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I once thought that too. At one point I could swear the breather ports on my 103 had a built-in check valve, but later when I went to check again, I could definitely blow air back into the heads. So whether a check valve is there or not, I guess they can stop working. So ended up sticking a Hayden check valve and catch-can on my RG which seemed to do the trick -- most of the time that is. If I forget to empty the can regularly, the pig starts spewing oil out it's little vent too. Oil leaks are a losing battle, one that's been raging since 1903.

The REVO doesn't have the same problem in that it tries to return collected oil back into the crankcase via gravity. It's just that the oil separator isn't big enough to trap all the oil particularly under high RPM conditions. A check valve helps a bit by maintaining a negative crankcase pressure which clips the volume being vented.
Your TC has an umbrella one way valve in each head. You should be able to suck from the outlet nipples but not blow back in. Several people install them incorrectly and don't work. You may have the updated version which is stamped steel. The pic is for the previous TC breather assy.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Haven't seen the Hooligan air box setup before is there any real benefit fitting one with a stage 1 topless SC filter SC race tuner Acro full system and where would you mount a Arnott's air ride compressor
i've also noted a real lift in performance since fitting the catch can anyone know if my bikes producing more HP or is it all in my mind
 

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Haven't seen the Hooligan air box setup before is there any real benefit fitting one with a stage 1 topless SC filter SC race tuner Acro full system and where would you mount a Arnott's air ride compressor
i've also noted a real lift in performance since fitting the catch can anyone know if my bikes producing more HP or is it all in my mind
Unless you fitted one way valving, it's in your mind.
Ron
 

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Can you feel it ? I sure did

This has all been very interesting. I spent weeks troubleshooting an oil pressure loss /smoking exhaust tailpipe during climb problem with a J47-27 Jet engine in an F86 Fighter Jet finally found a minute crack in a scavenge oil line inside the turbine frame weldment that allowed air pressure to break the scavenge vacuum that usually pulled oil back to the tank. Drove me nuts. Had to replace the entire turbine section. Anyway I am sure that less oil in the intake and being burned in the top end increases engine power. When I cleaned all that carbon buildup crust off my intake valves with Q tips and Sea Foam it instantly ran better. Every gasoline company out there brags about how their fuel cleans intake valve deposits and how that affects power and efficiency, so over time no oil in the REVO intake track creating carbon ( beyond what fuel creates ) has got to be a big performance plus. Can you feel it ? I did but my valves went from super crusty bad to shiny clean in one engine start, Millers engine would clean itself out slowly but probably run better and better and more responsive as the miles pile on - if you know your bike you would feel it.
 

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I was asked to show my setup using the "Hayden Krank Vent Plus" tucked inside the factory AC. I found a 'T' union that seemed to fit snugly into the top of the oil separator, then looped the hose in between the velocity stacks up to the check valve, and from there up into a mini inline vent filter. It's tie-wrapped to the AC stud to keep it all secure. Note that this is the first time I've had the AC top off this year and no sign of oily residue.





The point is, everything has to withstand vibration and you want to keep the hoses from touching the AC or you'll start wearing through. You can see one of my hose bends a bit too close to the AC, in fact it was touching. So I shortened the hose a bit to loop it in tighter. With the right fittings, I'm sure it can be plumbed in even neater.
 

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Thanks for sharing Russ. Let me see if I understand how you’ve fitted this. There are two hoses (one from each head) that go into a t piece, then into the vent plus, then into yeh oil separator?


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Haven't seen the Hooligan air box setup before is there any real benefit fitting one with a stage 1 topless SC filter SC race tuner Acro full system and where would you mount a Arnott's air ride compressor
i've also noted a real lift in performance since fitting the catch can anyone know if my bikes producing more HP or is it all in my mind


I’m having some head work done, cams and throttle bodies and a full tune. So I don’t know if “just” the hooligan intake will make a difference. I’ll post Dyno graphs when it’s done.


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Thanks for sharing Russ. Let me see if I understand how you’ve fitted this. There are two hoses (one from each head) that go into a t piece, then into the vent plus, then into yeh oil separator?


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The "hoses" to each head are already plumbed into the bottom of the oil separator as part of the air box base plate. The vent nipple on the top of the separator is normally open to atmosphere, drawn by the slight vacuum created by the velocity stacks, where the excess oil mist exits.

Using a 'T' union (cause I didn't have a right angle that fit), I tapped into the top vent tipple of the oil separator. From there it loops down and over into the Krank Vent Plus valve inlet side, and from there loops around into an inline mini vent filter.

Oil separator nipple -> Krank Vent Plus -> inline filter.

Also note that I pried my oil separator apart to wash the sponge that gets saturated over time. I don't advise doing this because the oil separator canister is glued together and you risk damaging it. It's also a PITA to hold the two halves back together without glue or sealant of some kind. I fitted mine with O-rings to be able to pull apart later. It would have prevented a lot of oily messes if MOCO made this serviceable for regular cleaning.
 

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The "hoses" to each head are already plumbed into the bottom of the oil separator as part of the air box base plate. The vent nipple on the top of the separator is normally open to atmosphere, drawn by the slight vacuum created by the velocity stacks, where the excess oil mist exits.

Using a 'T' union (cause I didn't have a right angle that fit), I tapped into the top vent tipple of the oil separator. From there it loops down and over into the Krank Vent Plus valve inlet side, and from there loops around into an inline mini vent filter.

Oil separator nipple -> Krank Vent Plus -> inline filter.

Also note that I pried my oil separator apart to wash the sponge that gets saturated over time. I don't advise doing this because the oil separator canister is glued together and you risk damaging it. It's also a PITA to hold the two halves back together without glue or sealant of some kind. I fitted mine with O-rings to be able to pull apart later. It would have prevented a lot of oily messes if MOCO made this serviceable for regular cleaning.
Yes an no. It's suppose to saturate/condense the vapor so it will drip back into the case. It will always get wet in short order. Early on I noticed my canister lid making popping sounds at idle. The lid was causing this with it's slightly loose fit. Even at that, it takes carefull prying at the right spots to get it off without damage. You can firm it with an oring as you have done or in my case a bond with ultra copper rtv. It can still be taken apart as I've done it once when I got a second lower breather box to convert it to mostly bottomless but see no reason to go there again.
My gut feeling is if one runs one way valving, it should be pre canister or if after, at least make sure there is good sealing on the canister lid, which as it comes, isn't all that good. I say this because before I sealed it, there was always oily residue coming from the lid joint before. Don't see that now.
Ron
 

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Yes an no. It's suppose to saturate/condense the vapor so it will drip back into the case. It will always get wet in short order. Early on I noticed my canister lid making popping sounds at idle. The lid was causing this with it's slightly loose fit. Even at that, it takes carefull prying at the right spots to get it off without damage. You can firm it with an oring as you have done or in my case a bond with ultra copper rtv. It can still be taken apart as I've done it once when I got a second lower breather box to convert it to mostly bottomless but see no reason to go there again.
My gut feeling is if one runs one way valving, it should be pre canister or if after, at least make sure there is good sealing on the canister lid, which as it comes, isn't all that good. I say this because before I sealed it, there was always oily residue coming from the lid joint before. Don't see that now.
Ron

You're certainly right about using RTV as opposed to fitting an O-ring. I had a hell of a time and it wasn't worth it. (I find that a lot of my stupid ideas lead to despair and disappointment). And you're right about the sponge too, but what I meant that when it gets so saturated with oil, the top of the sponge gets soaked and has only one place to go.

I found also that the sponge can harden and deform around the edges and no longer seal to the sides of the canister, in which case the oil separator stops working. Washing out the sponge and seating it in the hole a bit better goes a long way in cutting down the amount of blow-by.
 

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You're certainly right about using RTV as opposed to fitting an O-ring. I had a hell of a time and it wasn't worth it. (I find that a lot of my stupid ideas lead to despair and disappointment). And you're right about the sponge too, but what I meant that when it gets so saturated with oil, the top of the sponge gets soaked and has only one place to go.

I found also that the sponge can harden and deform around the edges and no longer seal to the sides of the canister, in which case the oil separator stops working. Washing out the sponge and seating it in the hole a bit better goes a long way in cutting down the amount of blow-by.
Makes sense on the sponge fit. Not the best design. That sponge disc is pretty lame and sometimes jammed in there with no respect , at least on the one box I had here. I think if I could have gotten that damn pesky center post out I would have made a multi disc system with a light spring holding them down via the cap. Basically fill about 1/2 the can with this sponge, which to me looks like Scotchbright pad material. I'll take a better look if I need to get in there for some reason down the road.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I've been looking at installing a Hayden crank vent with my oil catch can to grab that extra couple of HP, all the reviews i've read say there is no proof of any gains in HP or throttle response, am i wasting my hard earned cash fitting one
****
 

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I've been looking at installing a Hayden crank vent with my oil catch can to grab that extra couple of HP, all the reviews i've read say there is no proof of any gains in HP or throttle response, am i wasting my hard earned cash fitting one
****
Yes, if you're after noticeable horsepower gain, this would be a waste of money -- a gimmick. The only reason I stuck one in was to cut down oil blow-by from the oil separator canister. All I can say is that since installing it, the top of my motor has stayed clean and dry.
 

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Oh, there are gains alright. It's just nobody has done a back to back with the vr. I think, back in the day, Krankvents did. At any time there is ring float, blowby will increase and a slight drop in hp. Serious racers even go to the extreme of running a vacuum pump to make sure the case in negative pressure to keep the rings from floating and keep pistons from trying to compress air on the down stroke which robs power also.
Ron
 
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