Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently fitted a mishimoto oil catch can to my 16 night rod special no more oil or mist in my air box or injector tubes bike runs a lot better as well IMG_1532.jpg
 

·
The Massive Pr1ck
Joined
·
2,633 Posts
Haven't done it on my R, but on my Motus I made a catch can out of a small air compressor filter. Use the bowl drain for an auto drain tube back to the crankcase.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
To oil or not to oil. That is the question.

Wow, that's a great item miller2908 ! Think I'll get one for the engine I'm building now - the H-D Revo " separator " is a total joke. So what's you guys opinion - do you think a small amount of oil mist is beneficial to lubing those 4 valve stems on the dry side in the intake track ( below the valve stem seal ) at 9000 RPM or is the fuel enough ? The exhaust valves obviously have no mist lube other than whatever exits as burned oil (blue smoke) after combustion from the stock separator dripping in the airbox and running thru the engine, some ring blow by and valve stem seal seepage . I cleaned my intake valves of bad carbon buildup by wetting with Sea Foam at TDC and using huge Q tips to remove it all - I'm sure lots of that's from the past separator oil but also since new Amsoil and running the engine like it's designed to run (at higher RPM) it has reduced oil in my airbox from puddles to dampness. So your opinions - do you think this Revo was designed to inhale a little oil by the Germans and H-D, or OK to run nearly dry ?? Dry sure is cleaner, but a little oil must be beneficial to valve stems, seats, and top end lube. :blahblah: :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,029 Posts
Wow, that's a great item miller2908 ! Think I'll get one for the engine I'm building now - the H-D Revo " separator " is a total joke. So what's you guys opinion - do you think a small amount of oil mist is beneficial to lubing those 4 valve stems on the dry side in the intake track ( below the valve stem seal ) at 9000 RPM or is the fuel enough ? The exhaust valves obviously have no mist lube other than whatever exits as burned oil (blue smoke) after combustion from the stock separator dripping in the airbox and running thru the engine, some ring blow by and valve stem seal seepage . I cleaned my intake valves of bad carbon buildup by wetting with Sea Foam at TDC and using huge Q tips to remove it all - I'm sure lots of that's from the past separator oil but also since new Amsoil and running the engine like it's designed to run (at higher RPM) it has reduced oil in my airbox from puddles to dampness. So your opinions - do you think this Revo was designed to inhale a little oil by the Germans and H-D, or OK to run nearly dry ?? Dry sure is cleaner, but a little oil must be beneficial to valve stems, seats, and top end lube. :blahblah: :D
It's only an EPA thing. There are only down sides to venting oil mist into the intake stream. The big one is carbon forms on the intake and combustion chamber. If you go with a catch can, don't drain it back into the crankcase as the slurry produced from moisture and oil isn't wise to dump back into the engine oil. Drain it and toss the waste. Cold weather riding, most of this vented material will be water from condensation. If you can detect a difference in running between the oem separator and this one, you must have had a hell of a lot of oil transfer. Rings might be the real cause of so much. It should not be noticable.
Ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
When I bought my R model the seller balked when I told him the engine ran terrible above 6000 rpm, and if we couldn't clear that up I was not interested. He said he never ran the engine that to that high an RPM !! ( and after he test rode it above 6000 he agreed it was running badly, so we eventually adjusted the fuel leaner and it cleared up, Fuel was set rich for prior owners open mufflers, then put he hollow points on it, but never trimmed back fuel ) This contributed to nasty, dirty carbon encrusted intake valves, along with puddles of oil in the airbox. I believe lots of these Revo engines suffer from improper break-in and ring seating, and are not run to higher RPM's at the proper time during break-in, resulting in lots of oil venting, so I agree - rings Ron. I like your catch can idea, but I might not need it as much here in warm FL so I'll try the mishimoto as is for now, I think it just dumps back into the crankcase. MOTUL makes a great break-in oil 4T 3000 20/50 Mineral Oil that still meets API SJ, SH, SG, CD, CF and is MA Motorcycle specific for wet clutches and gearboxs, sportbikes to EVO's so maybe 500 miles of this oil use will help seat Revo rings. I'm using it to break in my new engine. :blahblah: :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
Hey Miller what Model # Mishimoto did you use ? On closer examination it looks like yours is a two inlet with one outlet vent line into the airbox setup but I guess you can cap the outlet and dump it once in a while if you want (the one I saw on line holds 2 oz.) or you can install a drain petcock if you want and drain it that way. Looks like your airbox is dry but have you noticed if yours is slowly filling with oil and would have to be dumped every 500 miles or so to avoid it eventually overfilling & dumping in the airbox ?? ( No return drain line to crankcase ) Thanks ! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oil catch can

G'day guys thanks for all the interest, the catch can is a Mishimoto compact baffled catch can with 2 inlets and 1 outlet, i cut away the crap plastic original unit and fitted the catch can using cable ties, i had to lengthen the front breather hose to make it fit the outlet breathes back into the airbox i fitted a short hose to direct the clean air downwards no real reason for this
Since fitting the catch can i have not had one drop of oil or oil mist in my airbox the old girl is running harder than ever and much cleaner out the back when I'm up her also the throttle is crisper and feels like I've got more power
As stated from one of the guys i don't run the contaminated oil back into the sump i simply cut the cable ties lift the catch can and unscrew the bottom empty and clean never much oil in there anyway e.g. on a 1000km trip I probably get 1 or 2 mil of oil i couldn't fit a drain as the catch can sits on the base of the cutaway factory crap
Xmas eve today down under hope you all have a great Xmas and New Year
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
I did this on my truck and its great. I actually catch a fair amount of oil after 5k miles. Does anyone have a picture or anything on what hose they connect to this and where its located?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,029 Posts
I'd like to point out a catch can can be mounted anywhere convenient on the bike so draining is more accessible. As long as you can hose it from heads to can it will work. This is often done on the HD big twins when some owners reroute the breather circuit. Some add a little filter on the breather outlet of the catch can also. In the case of the big twins that have one way umbrella valves it seems pointless since the engine cannot suck air back in. On the Revolution with no one way breather valving, it can.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's a Mishimoto compact baffled catch can there is a 2 or 3 outlet version from memory it was on page 3 of the site, let me know if you still have trouble finding it and i will look up my paperwork for a part number
****
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,299 Posts
Suckin' Oil Sucks ! Can it !

That's great info Miller ! And Good point Ron, like you said it's an EPA thing - no more spittin' oil on the ground like the old 60's cars, trucks and bikes, oil goes to the intake and gets burned. ( but it's still really pollution, sorry EPA - since it burns, decreases fuel octane, carbons up intake valves, pistons and reduces power, efficiency, fuel mileage and promotes detonation so stopping it reaps multiple real benefits ) Good point also about it sucking in, didn't consider that - in the Revo the suck in air is filtered since its within the air filter housing on the inside filtered side. If a guy mounts it outside the Revo H-D airbox it should have a filter on the breather outlet to prevent sucking in dust and dirt. The Red can MMBCC-MSTHR-RD looks cool but it's like 4X4X5 " compared to the compact -BK which is 3X3X5 " so don't buy just by color. Ordering a -BK now. MERRRRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANUKKAH, KWANZAA, Etc. Prep for new Years Eve now - start drinkin' !! :) :blahblah: :D
 

·
Registered Useless
Joined
·
590 Posts
On air twin motors, crankcase mist has three places to go: 1) into the intake, 2) all over the bike, and 3) to an external catch can. On revo motors it passes through an (inadequate) oil separator intended to condense it back into liquid to trickle back down into the crankcase. When it is working right, very little oil is actually ingested. At least that's been my experience anyway. Going topless virtually eliminates the vacuum draw leaving only positive crankcase pressure to contend with.

I don't have a picture but I connected a Hayden Crank Vent Plus (check valve) to the top of the factory oil separator which eliminated all oil residue completely. All it does is maintains a constant negative crankcase pressure that reduces the pulsating mist being vented from each cylinder head, giving the oil separator more time to do its job. ... and the 15-hp gain is immediately noticeable!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,029 Posts
On air twin motors, crankcase mist has three places to go: 1) into the intake, 2) all over the bike, and 3) to an external catch can. On revo motors it passes through an (inadequate) oil separator intended to condense it back into liquid to trickle back down into the crankcase. When it is working right, very little oil is actually ingested. At least that's been my experience anyway. Going topless virtually eliminates the vacuum draw leaving only positive crankcase pressure to contend with.

I don't have a picture but I connected a Hayden Crank Vent Plus (check valve) to the top of the factory oil separator which eliminated all oil residue completely. All it does is maintains a constant negative crankcase pressure that reduces the pulsating mist being vented from each cylinder head, giving the oil separator more time to do its job. ... and the 15-hp gain is immediately noticeable!
Funny you bring that up. Every single, even lawn mowers use a one way valving method as do v twins on a single crank pin to control crankcase pressures, preferably 0 to a slight negative pressure. This drops oil out flow or carry over to the point almost no oil escapes and the lack of positive pressure pulses in the case keeps the rings against the lower part of the ring lands to reduce or stop excess blowby . An increase in hp is the result. Now , it's lack of use in the Revolution has always been a head scratching, ball scratching, never ending source of puzzlement to me because Porsche are no dummies. There had to be a reason and the only one I can come up with is increased oiling to the cam area. It's the only logical reason I can come up with. Otherwise, there are only gains to one way valving the venting of the crank case. Hell, serious racers actually run vacuum pumps to ensure negative case pressures for increased hp. I've never pursued one way valving due to that unknown reason they were never used. As my bike stands with topless and mostly bottomless, over a season I only have a very light misting in the box. Ring seal is good, which if not is a major cause of oil carry over in these engines with the current none valved crankcase breather.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Funny you bring that up. Every single, even lawn mowers use a one way valving method as do v twins on a single crank pin to control crankcase pressures, preferably 0 to a slight negative pressure. This drops oil out flow or carry over to the point almost no oil escapes and the lack of positive pressure pulses in the case keeps the rings against the lower part of the ring lands to reduce or stop excess blowby . An increase in hp is the result. Now , it's lack of use in the Revolution has always been a head scratching, ball scratching, never ending source of puzzlement to me because Porsche are no dummies. There had to be a reason and the only one I can come up with is increased oiling to the cam area. It's the only logical reason I can come up with. Otherwise, there are only gains to one way valving the venting of the crank case. Hell, serious racers actually run vacuum pumps to ensure negative case pressures for increased hp. I've never pursued one way valving due to that unknown reason they were never used. As my bike stands with topless and mostly bottomless, over a season I only have a very light misting in the box. Ring seal is good, which if not is a major cause of oil carry over in these engines with the current none valved crankcase breather.
Ron
This is very interesting. If the V-twins and M8 have one way valving then why are there still oil soaked air filters out there. I keep my oil level low by .5 quart to minimize blow by in my M8. I'm guessing that this would not help with the revolution engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,029 Posts
This is very interesting. If the V-twins and M8 have one way valving then why are there still oil soaked air filters out there. I keep my oil level low by .5 quart to minimize blow by in my M8. I'm guessing that this would not help with the revolution engine.
Having done a few builds like the 113 and 120r versions I can tell you the air cooled cylinders suck and one of many reasons I have v rod now. My stock 96" was no better, probably the worst as it had too much oil consumption also. They don't stay round and blowby is always an issue with many out there. Some seem to work out ok also. My 113 was actually really good. Too much blowby reduces one way breather effect so a lot of control is lost. Blowby velocity increases to a point where it can carry oil with the air especially after extended high rpm runs, which is what soaks the breather with stock venting locations. Boring a seasoned set of cyls, they are more stable since most distortion has stabilized. Dropping oil by .5 quart helps all of them since it increases the air space in the case or in the case of a softail in the tank. More air space is a buffer for the pulses on the piston down stroke so the outflow is less aggressive, so less oil is carried along with the crankcase out flow.
Ron
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top