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Mater Distiller
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1,440 Posts
My thoughts were really, how advanced was the oil in 64. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done this before doing it myself. I plan on primary and engine sump for it. For my 08 VRSCDXA, I will stick with SE for now just because of how much oil I'm burning (if it becomes a warranty issue). I called HD and they said that a qt/1000 miles is in spec. I only have 5K on the bike right now, and it sucks to have to put a quart of oil in the saddlebags because I'm making a weekend trip.
Switch to Amsoil and run the :stac: out of the bike & I mean run it, WOT to red line through the gears and plenty of engine breaking for a couple of hundred mile and I guarantee your oil use will fade to zero. :deal:
 

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Premium Member
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7,727 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
I read the amsoil article and became confused. It states that there is a separate sump for the transmission and the clutch. The owners manual specifically states that the oil in the sump is used for the engine, transmission, primary, and clutch. What's the right answer? I probably wouldn't have said anything, but the article specifically stated v-rod.
Actually it states:

The first is where there is a separate fluid reservoir for the clutch
keeping it isolated from the engine and transmission. An example
of this configuration is the primary-drive chain case found on
recent models of Harley-Davidson motorcycles
(exceptions include
Sportsters and V-Rods)
.
 

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Registered
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47 Posts
Question - I hear about amsoil quite a bit in discussions through this website. Is there a reason for amsoil to be used so often other than other motorcycle oils available? I'm asking out of ignorance, not for creating battles.
 

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09 AW
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140 Posts
Actually it states:

The first is where there is a separate fluid reservoir for the clutch
keeping it isolated from the engine and transmission. An example
of this configuration is the primary-drive chain case found on
recent models of Harley-Davidson motorcycles
(exceptions include
Sportsters and V-Rods)
.


O2man,

Read farther and you will find what Garlyth was talking about. I had the same question. This is the part where the confusion is:

Wet-clutches can be found in three different configurations.
The first is where there is a separate fluid reservoir for the clutch
keeping it isolated from the engine and transmission. An example
of this configuration is the primary-drive chain case found on
recent models of Harley-Davidson motorcycles (exceptions include
Sportsters and V-Rods). The second configuration is a
shared transmission and clutch fluid reservoir. Examples of this
configuration can be found on Harley Sportsters and V-Rods, as
well as a few metric bikes like the Honda CRF-250R. The third
is a common engine, transmission and clutch reservoir. This is
the most common configuration and is found in the majority of
metric and European motorcycles as well as ATVs.
 

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K.I.A. '07 AW
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10,908 Posts
My thoughts were really, how advanced was the oil in 64. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done this before doing it myself. I plan on primary and engine sump for it. For my 08 VRSCDXA, I will stick with SE for now just because of how much oil I'm burning (if it becomes a warranty issue). I called HD and they said that a qt/1000 miles is in spec. I only have 5K on the bike right now, and it sucks to have to put a quart of oil in the saddlebags because I'm making a weekend trip.
Burning oil is NEVER within spec on a modern motorcycle. If you're sticking to SE for cost reasons, you would be better served dumping the syn3 and installing any other motorcycle oil rated for wet clutches. It will be less expensive, so while you keep burning oil you're not burning as much hard earned cash.
Now if you would like to rid yourself of the oil burning curse, keep your RPMs at or above 4k as often as possible, lots of heavy engine braking, and put a quality oil in the bike at next change.
 

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24 Posts
I was going to post a question about what type of oil to use. Synthetic or regular. I had two dealerships tell me different. I noticed when I used synthetic I had issues with my clutch. (Especially when the bike got warmer) Once I went back to regular, I had no issues. So my question was going to be to see what other were using and if they had an a clutch issue using sythetic?
 

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Powdercoat Maniac
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1,018 Posts
My thoughts were really, how advanced was the oil in 64. I just wanted to see if anyone else had done this before doing it myself. I plan on primary and engine sump for it. For my 08 VRSCDXA, I will stick with SE for now just because of how much oil I'm burning (if it becomes a warranty issue). I called HD and they said that a qt/1000 miles is in spec. I only have 5K on the bike right now, and it sucks to have to put a quart of oil in the saddlebags because I'm making a weekend trip.
Same thing happen to me until i put it syn (not to mention Amsoil)
It stop burning oil
 

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499 Posts
Levers

Help dude. I have an 03 v-rod that ran perfect until i used mobile 1 vtwin for motorcycles. Immediately the clutch slipped horribly. I flushed it out and went to screaming eagle. It slowed the slip, but when i get on it to change lanes and accelerate the rpms walk away, i lose power, and slow way down. It feels likje a slipping clutch.
I upgraded to a Barnett V-rod model clutch and thought that would fix it. The clutch does the exact same thing and the hotter it gets outside the worse it slips. I replaced the clutch--what the hell else could it be. I have taken it to three different harley shops and they say its fine because it works good until the bike warms up. I am way frustrated...what the hell else could it be? Its getting ridiculous and dangerous and no one has an answer. Help!!!

Did you by chance change the break and clutch levers to after-market?
 

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Blowin' Smoke
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2,647 Posts
I think brentsimnitt needs to change and bleed his clutch actuating fluid.

O2man98, you have to admit that the Amsoil write-up you are so proud of does confuse the V-rod oil reservoir setup. The V has only one sump as you know; they are trying to say the engine oil is separate from the tranmission/clutch. Not true. Don't get me wrong, I use your Amsoil and am very high on it, but the article has this issue confused. Otherwise, the article is excellent. Thanks much.
 

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Super Moderator
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6,248 Posts
I think brentsimnitt needs to change and bleed his clutch actuating fluid. ...
If the slip is related to the hydraulic fluid, bleeding won’t help. Air in the system will cause the opposite problem. The hydraulic pressure will be reduced when the clutch lever is squeezed and the clutch won’t release making it hard to shift.

A slipping clutch means the plates are contaminated (bad oil), the plates are worn, there’s too much fluid in the reservoir, and/or the compensating port is plugged.

Bad oil and worn plates are sometimes the problem but it's more likely to be excess fluid or a blocked port preventing the slave cylinder from moving back when the lever is released causing the clutch to slip.
 

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If there is air in the clutch system, as the fluid get hotter (which he is complaining about) the air in the system will expand and cause the actuator to apply pressure on the clutch. Just like if you have air in the brake lines the brake will begin to drag and eventually lock up from the expansion of the air in the line.
 

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2,103 Posts
Help dude. I have an 03 v-rod that ran perfect until i used mobile 1 vtwin for motorcycles. Immediately the clutch slipped horribly. I flushed it out and went to screaming eagle. It slowed the slip, but when i get on it to change lanes and accelerate the rpms walk away, i lose power, and slow way down. It feels likje a slipping clutch.
I upgraded to a Barnett V-rod model clutch and thought that would fix it. The clutch does the exact same thing and the hotter it gets outside the worse it slips. I replaced the clutch--what the hell else could it be. I have taken it to three different harley shops and they say its fine because it works good until the bike warms up. I am way frustrated...what the hell else could it be? Its getting ridiculous and dangerous and no one has an answer. Help!!!
this is a long shot but i have seen it happen on a v-rod..there is a tiny bleed back hole in the master cyl.. if that hole gets plugged (from old nasty brake fluid) when the bike and the fluid gets hot the fluid in the line will expand and partially disengage the clutch.. i have seen this a couple of times.. the same thing can happen with the brakes only as the brakes get hot it starts applying the brakes,not a fun thing to have happen. i have seen several cases of that happening..
 

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If there is air in the clutch system, as the fluid get hotter (which he is complaining about) the air in the system will expand and cause the actuator to apply pressure on the clutch. Just like if you have air in the brake lines the brake will begin to drag and eventually lock up from the expansion of the air in the line.
sorry i have to agree with steve975.. i have seen several v-rods with the fluid aired up and the only real problem is you can`t release the clutch fully and that causes the clutch to drag... as long as the bleed back hole in the master cyl is clear the hose to the slave cyl can`t build up pressure..
 

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Premium Member
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84 Posts
In my experience, a building pedal, or in this case, clutch, where the toe-play or free play diminishes with application, either the compensator port in the master cylinder is obstructed or the pedal / lever clearance is incorrect and not allowing full piston return. Another possibility that I have encountered is slight swelling of the primary cup. When this swelling occurs, it is possible for an otherwise normal appearing cup to block the port. I have overcome this by back-filling the system, thereby applying pressure to 'apply' the cup thereby pushing it past the compensator port. This technique works well and if successful, doesn't negatively affect the hydraulic system's operation. Check with the service manual for the correct lever to piston clearances and be sure not to reduce the clearances below those tolerances.
Another possibility that I have run into is where the piston doesn't retract fully at all! I have found, especially with DOT 5, that there can be a build-up of gummy to hard crud which prevents the piston from traveling the entire length of the bore (conflict). It is possible that the original assembly lube, (silicone paste or jelly), may not wash away as one would normally find in a more traditional brake/hydraulic system using DOT 3 or 4, leaving that assembly lube to collect, harden and then jam up the works. Careful disassembly and inspection of the master will allow you to clean and correct these issues.
And remember that moisture finds its lowest point in hydraulic systems. After looking at your master, look closely at your slave or actuator. Be sure you have clearance and be very sure that it doesn't bind! It should retract with little resistance (watch out for fluid spillage from master when doing this test - see service manual)
The fact that you had the problem with 2 oils, 2 clutches all of which were different than the former, tells me you have been looking in the wrong lunch-box. Good luck
 

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mike70454
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23 Posts
If there is air in the clutch system, as the fluid get hotter (which he is complaining about) the air in the system will expand and cause the actuator to apply pressure on the clutch. Just like if you have air in the brake lines the brake will begin to drag and eventually lock up from the expansion of the air in the line.


If the air expands so will the fluid. Air is compressible, fluid (oil) is not. The compensating port prevents this expansion from applying unwanted pressure in the feed line.
Just sayin'.
 

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mike70454
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23 Posts
this is a long shot but i have seen it happen on a v-rod..there is a tiny bleed back hole in the master cyl.. if that hole gets plugged (from old nasty brake fluid) when the bike and the fluid gets hot the fluid in the line will expand and partially disengage the clutch.. i have seen this a couple of times.. the same thing can happen with the brakes only as the brakes get hot it starts applying the brakes,not a fun thing to have happen. i have seen several cases of that happening..
Here's another long shot. If you fill the master cyl. completely to the top, the oil has nowhere to go when it expands. Quite likely the clutch will begin to disenagage when the oil becomes hot. I have seen it happen on brake systems. It is not like a car which usually has a diaphragm with an air space above it in the lid.
 

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Premium Member
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84 Posts
Here's another long shot. If you fill the master cyl. completely to the top, the oil has nowhere to go when it expands. Quite likely the clutch will begin to disenagage when the oil becomes hot. I have seen it happen on brake systems. It is not like a car which usually has a diaphragm with an air space above it in the lid.
I don't know about yours, but my bike has rubber bellows cover gaskets which act exactly the same as any hydraulic reservoir cover designed to exclude air/moisture, yet allow for volumetric changes. And no.. air cannot apply clutches, but lbrown points to exactly what to I referred to back in September '10 - that the compensator port sometimes gets blocked (either with 'scum' or the primary boot) which prevents complete pressure release after clutch activation.
 
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