Normal vibration level in Vrod Engine

mjw930 said:

Read the message completely,

Click to expand...

Sorry - but after about the seventh or eighth lengthy post from the same guy on the same subject, my eyes begin to get blurry.

Seriously - I can, and do, often choose to completely ignore certain threads. But as V-Rodforums.com gains a wider audience, I think we owe it to new riders, and readers, to maintain a certain "editorial balance". So, to counterweigh those prior posts -

Firstly, doesn't this thread belong in the "Problems" section?

Secondly, with 36 posts in the thread, you'd think that the V-Rod had some sort of serious endemic problem with vibration. It doesn't.

Thirdly, I question the whole idea of trying to solve a "vibration problem" via the Internet. If trained Harley technicians, seeing, hearing, and touching the bike in question were unable to offer up any assistance- then any opinions offered up here are necessarily going to be speculative, at best.

Lastly, as far as the "usefulness" of the thread - I question that. What is the "solution" offered up? Loosen and retighten every fastener in your bike's exhaust system, including the header bolts. Maybe if you are experienced and trained working on motorcycle exhaust systems - but for a "newbie" that advice is frankly ill-advised. The inexperienced reader is much more likely to crush a header gasket or round off a cap screw than anything else. And then they've really got themselves a problem.

Hi again,
I do appreciate everyones comments regarding mine and the other V Rod owners vibration conditions. I have been a motorcyclist for over FOURTY YEARS, owned at least THIRTY PLUS bikes, and presently have three, and in all that time I have dealt with just about every kind of problem that plagued motorcycles. I always have done all of my own services and mods and repairs. Warranty items went back to the dealers. Do not worry, I am not going to go into any of the details, and I will not in the future discuss VIBRATIONS. The only time that I have ever had a seriously annoying vibration was with my V Rod, and it appears that numerous other V Rod owners have the same condition. Why are there so many varied vibration conditions with the V Rods??????? MY final comment. If any of you folks out there think that the Harley dealers are going to put in any extra effort to fix the condition, do not hold your breath. They do not have the time or the desire to dig into the problem, as they are very busy selling bikes and doing PROFITABLE services and repairs. I do not fault their reasoning, as they have a business to run. In the future, anyone interested in dealing further with the vibration problem, please contact me directly at [email protected] and I will be happy to work with anyone wanting to deal with the problem. Thanks to all for reading everyones vibration items, and offering helpful suggestions. Ride often, and ride safe.
Al Bachur

Al,

Don't let a few wayward comments keep you from posting whenever and whatever you want to about the V-Rod. Remember, if they don't want to read it then no one is forcing them too.

BTW, here's what the manual says about troubleshooting vibration issues. I bet none of the dealers asked about the problem checked any of these things

Oh, don't forget to notice item number 8

Thanks for all of the encouraging replys. It is nice to know that there are so many of you out there who feel as I do, and can appreciate the importance of receiving and sending out to others worthwhile information that is normally not readily available. From what I have been reading in many of the threads, dealer / service department dissatisfaction is one of the main complaints of the V Rod owners. I myself got very frustated with them when my complaint ( Excessive and annoying Vibration ) that they claim is normal, when it was not present for the first 900+ miles. Something somewhere changed. My dealer did go through whatever they felt might be the cause of the problem, but everything checked out OK through the diagnostic checks ( electrical ). That apparently is as far as the dealer / service department is required to go. Are there any Service Bulletins put out by Harley relating to vibration conditions in regards to the exhaust system, I doubt it, as their customer service department would have mentioned that to me when I spoke to them on two separate occasions. At this point we have no recourse but for the owners of the 20,000 dollar vibrators to try and find the problem and hope to fix it ourselves. Not everyone is a knowledgeable and capable mechanic, and most bikers will not put any extra effort in locating and fixing problems, but will accept and live with the conditions so long as the bike operates satisfactorally. The dealers can fix almost any known mechanical problems that occur, so long as they are actually obvious and have a previous record of occuring. We have been dealing with an previously unknown condition that seems to vary in degree from one bike to another??? We know that all Harleys do have some vibrations at some points in their RPM range. These are low amplitude vibrations, not the high frequency vibrations that buzz the whole bike and cause the mirrors to get fuzzy. We do not have buzzy Sportsters, we have expensive high tech V Rods that are rubber mounted, as well as having internal engine vibration counterbalancers. In my opinion, there are no vibration problems with the engines, and that brings us back to the exhaust system. Has anyone besides myself tried repositioning the mufflers, and if so have any changes in the vibration levels been noticed??? I have a few more things to try with the exhaust system in the next few days, and I will pass on the results to you. Those who changed to after market components in the exhaust system did claim to notice a difference in the vibrations that did occur. In closing, to those of you who are willing to accept excessive vibration and the dealers calling it normal, more power to you. I will not accept excessive vibration whatever the cause, not on a 20,000 dollar high tech bike. If the V Rod I test drove vibrated, I NEVER would have would have considered purchasing the V Rod. Have a great day.
Al Bachur

Al, Roger and anyone else who has a true problem in need of a resolution -- far more value exists in discussing it here in depth, then the worry of the denigration of our beloved V-Rod's image.

Nothing in this thread came anywhere close to being a complaint fest against HD, nor did it degenerate into a flame fest. Instead we saw a couple of diligent members trying to work with the HD resources -- their local dealers, to resolve their problems (one dealer helpful and one withdrawn due to ignorance). Drew, like so many of us, has seen many Internet discussion areas that have degenerated to personal mud slinging against the Mo, dealers and individual owners. We all work hard to avoid getting personal here, and I applaud both Roger and Al for their steadfastness. Lesser men would have given up and this thread could have easily gone the way of the less respected discussion groups. This place has a different attitude, it definately rubs off on its members.

It took a couple of months of persistance, you seem to have found a viable direction for fixing the problem. I await to here from Roger about how this approach minimizes his vibration problem. Thanks for the discussion, although I have no vibration issues, I will probably re-tourqe my stock exhaust system with SE Slip-on's. I have wrestled with my exhaust since I bought the billet clamps, because they are not as easy to mount and tighten as the original strap clamps.

The V-Rod is designed and assembled to modern manufacturing standards. Many opportunities are built into that process to catch and correct defects. The MoCo and their vendor partners have instituted a Six Sigma manufacturing process to minimize those defects. It undoubtedly extends to the customer service level at the Mo which is important when tracking total quality. But the most difficult element to plug into the equation is probably the independent dealers. Training and insentives are often not enough. Leadership from the top at the dealer level is required. Many dealers may see this as an additional burden and do not have the ability to understand that Six Sigma benefits them directly, as well as their customers. Unfortunately, it won't benefit them until they get on-board.

I would think that defects in the motor of the V-Rod would be extremely rare. This part of the assembly can be the most tightly controlled tested and monitoired with the Mo's quality systems. But when the Bike arrives at the dealer and is uncrated for assembly, it becomes the dealers responsibility to assure that the Mo's specifications are extended to this part of the build. I do not know, but would assume that the third volume and slip-ons are added by the dealer. I would like to see the dealer assembly instructions, to see all the steps that the bike goes thru when being prep'd for road worthiness. Is there anyone out there who can scan a copy of that document. The Mo probably doesn't require that a V-Rod qualified mechanic preps these bikes when they are sold...

I have no doubt that the average assembler would conclude that if an exhaust is bolted up and floats in its mounts, but can be preloaded to a harder-tighter extreme of its mounts where it is restricted from motion -- that that position could be percieved as better. In fact, the nominal floating position is probably prefered for minimizing vibrations. So far evidence presented by Al points to that, I look forward to hearing more details from Al and about Rogers results.

I visited the Morgan Hill dealer (see Dana's recomendation above), they are V-Rod people! I spoke with Sam, one of their sales guys who owns a V-Rod and he is a true enthusiast. They have several v-rod customers who I also met during their openhouse event. They speak highly of the help that the dealership provides them as they strive to modify and personalize their V-Rods. You should see if they have a trailering service that can pickup your bike when you schedule service. Perhaps that can mitigate the distance and the commute.

Good luck to all, and keep posting as long as you continue with useful information.

I have fussed around with my exhaust system(SE slipons) that past few days. Does not appear to have diminished vibration thru foot pegs and hand grips. Feels like motor mounts just do not do an adaquate job of isolating motor from frame. But of course this could be a result of the motor doing excessive vibration. Seems the worst around 3000 rpm in any gear or no speed just free reving the motor. I know this cannot be normal. Does anyone know how to get to the proper folks at HD to find out just what they consider normal vibration in these motors. I have called Customer Service(yes I know) several times. I suspect that I probably know more about Vrods then the guy I talk to there(Shawn) and I have only had a Vrod since March. Of course I do have an advantage. I have owned and ridden one, I suspect that he has done neither. I realize this is not Valkyre(sp) but Christ it is not a John Deere either. I just rode a friends 03 Heritage with a 95 inch CNC with big cam, etc. etc. and it felt like a Caddylac compared to my Vrod. Same goes for my Heritage.

Wonder if after the third time to the dealer for the same problem(Vibrations) you can claim Lemon Law and demand a refund. Perhaps this would get someone from HD to sit up and pay attention.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca