[sxrxrnr]

I just purchased a new 03 Vrod. Have owned a 03 Heritage for past couple of years.

As noted in another thread, I am having a stalling problem that I hope will go away once I have emptied my first tank of fuel and fill with new fuel.

However another issue that I am uncertain how to deal with is the perceived vibration level of this bike verses that of the Heritage. At any engine speed, whether not moving or cruising I feel a quite noticeable vibration thruout the bike and particularily in the hand grips. If cruising say at 50 mph it is as though an automobile has out of balance wheels or driveshaft. If I disengage the clutch all is well and smooth.

I took bike to the shop where I purchased and had 2 different mechanics and one salesman sit on the bike and run to 3000 rpm. Vibration was quite noticeable but they all agree that it is normal. In the Heritage there is some at idle, but at any engine speed is goes completely away and is smooth.

My question is, is this normal? Perhaps the Heritage is so smooth because of the internal balance shaft, which the Vrod does not have.

Max, in another thread suggested that engine should be smooth and if mine is not, that perhaps my plugs could be somewhat fouled. I guess my real problem is that I do not know what is normal and I am being too critical, but again it is a very severe vibration thru my hands via the grips. I suspect that I need to mount another Vrod to see how it feels.

Thanks to all for any help :vrod:

 

[sxrxrnr]

Michel do you remember what the vibration fix was on your Sportster?

Thanks

 

[sxrxrnr]

I went to my dealer today and the salesman who sold me the bike said that it feels normal to him when he did a test drive. I then axed to take out their demo bike.

On acceleration it felt the same as mine(both have a Screaming Eagle Exhaust, the demo had a different belt gear), however at cruise the demo was quite smooth where mine the vibration level is much higher and quite severe and felt thru my hands, feet and butt. If I disengage the clutch at say 40 mph on the demo bike, there is a minor improvement in smoothness, if I do so on my bike there is a very pronounced improvement.

So now here I am with four members of their staff(2 mechanics and 2 salesman)telling me all is normal so I am outnumbered and in their eyes out experienced. I do not suppose that their is a vibration meter that can be attached to the bike for a test ride and the results downloaded to a computer for analyses. It is beyond me why they think that my level is normal unless a short ride and not living with for any period of time does not give them a feeling of annoyance that this has on your psyche. If their new auto's shook like this they would be all over their dealer support system.

I also reported again the stalling of the engine. It happened 3 times today, once on the way to the dealer, and twice on the way home. This was my third visit to them on this problem. Oh did I mention my earliest date that bike can be scheduled for an analyses of my problem is April 21st. They suggested that I leave the bike with them, and perhaps they would find time to "squeeze" it in before then. I suppose warranty repairs do not pay well. I purchased the bike brand new 10 days ago and reported the stalling problem the very next day as it stalled a 1/2 dozen times on the way home(10 miles or so). I elected not to leave the bike sun-bathing there for the next few weeks and rode it home. I will report this on the stalling string also.

 

[sxrxrnr]

Dana

Thanks for the tip on The House of Thunder. They are quite some way from where I live(Milpitas Hills) but if I can't get no satisfaction from my local HD dealers(bike is under warranty as is new and HD has told me no way will they pay someone outside of their network of dealers for repairs or analyses), I will have to move up the food chain to find help.

I will keep their info for future reference.

 

[sxrxrnr]

As noted in another thread on this forum, my stalling problem is just about gone(had about 6 stalls the past 5 weeks verses up to 6 per day; this was fixed by getting a dealer other then the one who sold me my bike to do the "02a" download of the ECM to match the SE exhaust installed by the selling dealer. I think that 6 stalls are too many and I have yet to find anyone at HD or my local dealers who claim that this is a feature of the bike, so I must assume that something still is amiss that no one will take the time to assess and repair. The selling dealer did not have the proper download cartridge so I guess just did not do it and thought that no one would notice.) but I still think the bike vibrates too much for a bike of this quality and expense.

I have had a large number of opinions on this--is the vibration on my bike normal?--am I too sensitive?--Vrods should be very smooth and mine is say many--is their something wrong mechanically? many opinions as to what it could be failing from fouled plugs, to a partially plugged injector, to loose engine mounts, to improper engine timing, to bad fuel regulator,to improper mounted vibration dampner, and on and on.

Here is what I finally concluded. I suspect my bike does not vibrate any more then any other Vrod, shame on Porsche and HD engineers for this, but what I was comparing it too was the smoothness of my 2003 Heritage with its internally balance shaft engine and heavier bike chassis. I believe that all who reported to me that their Vrods are smooth are comparing its feel to either older HD's without this balance shaft or current models such as Road Kings that do not have this shaft either but are rubber mounted. So in comparison to them the Vrod may seem very smooth but if you switch back and forth between a Heritage and a Vrod as I do, you readily notice how much more vibration that you feel thru your grips and pegs(and arse) on the Vrod at all RPM from idle to 9 grand. I have no experience with Japanese bike(especially 2 cylinder) so do not know how they feel.

There must be some secret readers(HD engineering employes or some such) who read this forum regularly and know the answers we seek. But for some reason they are not speaking up to let us know what is normal vibration and if abnormal what is causing it. Depending on you dealer for answers is fruitless as most of their employees do not know enough about what is normal to be of any help and if they do think it is abnormal they do not want to get involved in sorting it out as HD is not going to pay for the time to troubleshoot.

So for now, I enjoy the good and take the bad as price of admission for the pleasures that this bike can offer. Perhaps someday we will get the answers but for now I will just assume that this motor is suppose to feel like a John Deere and run like a Ferrari.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

HD Customer Service(yea rite!) also tells me that they have heard of no vibration problems. When axed how it can be measured to establish if abnormal or not, they had not a clue. I remember a quote that I once saw in a technical manual(IBM Mainframe stuff) describing an IBM bug by a competitor of IBM's. The quote went something like this "It is not a known IBM bug until every user has reported it twice". I too feel strongly that what I feel in my bike is not normal(who would be stupid to design into such a work of art, a feature such as this?) but have found no way of establishing if it is or not so that I could demand that it be taken care of by HD. It would be great if someone from HD engineering(or Porsche) would be involved in this to give us some insight on to what is normal and what is not. On the other hand I understand why they would not.

Perhaps some of the techs who have done dyno tuning on Vrods could share what they have observed when running these engines up on their dynos as to smoothness of some bikes verses others. I also sometimes wonder if the SE exhaust installation may cause the perception of increased vibration as it does seem to me to be in sync with the engine firing pulsations. I have checked by throttle plates and they seem ok. This was a good thought however.

Just changed oil at 1000 miles and used HD synthetic. Certainly smoothed out transmission shifting in Vrod(now like a hot knife thru butter). Also put in my Heritage(transmission only) at 5K service and made world of difference in smoothness and clunkiness. Recommend highly.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

Excellent detective work Al. In an earlier post of mine on this thread I had mentioned that installation of the after market installation by my dealer of SE exhaust could be related as the vibration appeared in tempo with engine firing pulsations. You are now suggesting that any incorrectly installed exhaust rather HD factory or after market could be at the root of some of our problems. Good work. Now if I can just get my dealer to check this out(oh sorry there I have gone losing my head again).

Would be interested in your findings on syncing throttle body.

Another thread had questions on chrome upper/lower chain guard installation. I just installed on my bike today. Took all of 20 minutes. Probably saved 2 hours of dealer labor time.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

Makes one wonder if a subcriber does not have a vibration problem, why is he reading this thread and having a brain hernia over it? Perhaps he is fortunate and having qualified technical support from his local dealer(some of us have already been down this lengthy fruitless path), or himself so qualified that he can troubleshoot and repair all his Vrod problems himself. Most of are not and need input from others and their experiences with resolving obscure problems. Of course if this person is so qualified, perhaps he should have suggested that an exhaust system could cause the problem(he apparently knew the answer all along and never mentioned it to us until now) discussed in 36 posts(by his count) and saved all of us the intense stress that we have all experienced in reading this thread(which I started).

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

Al: My vote is that if you or anyone else has more light to shine on this issue that you continue to post for all to share. If I have anymore to offer I certainly will and I suspect that most feel that is proper and will have no problem seeing another 35 posts on this if that is what it takes. I have seen what appears to be 100's of posts on oils and other topics and I learn something from most of them. Even those posts that I do not learn something new from I still enjoy reading as each gives me just a little more insight on what others are dealing with and the frustrations and joys that they discuss. After all it is not like we can meet at the corner gas station or wherever like the big twin guys are able to in order share experiences and this forum gives us an opportunity to have something that is a close 2nd best. Makes you wonder(how soon we forget) how the world operated before the internet.

Thanks again
Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

I have fussed around with my exhaust system(SE slipons) that past few days. Does not appear to have diminished vibration thru foot pegs and hand grips. Feels like motor mounts just do not do an adaquate job of isolating motor from frame. But of course this could be a result of the motor doing excessive vibration. Seems the worst around 3000 rpm in any gear or no speed just free reving the motor. I know this cannot be normal. Does anyone know how to get to the proper folks at HD to find out just what they consider normal vibration in these motors. I have called Customer Service(yes I know) several times. I suspect that I probably know more about Vrods then the guy I talk to there(Shawn) and I have only had a Vrod since March. Of course I do have an advantage. I have owned and ridden one, I suspect that he has done neither. I realize this is not Valkyre(sp) but Christ it is not a John Deere either. I just rode a friends 03 Heritage with a 95 inch CNC with big cam, etc. etc. and it felt like a Caddylac compared to my Vrod. Same goes for my Heritage.

Wonder if after the third time to the dealer for the same problem(Vibrations) you can claim Lemon Law and demand a refund. Perhaps this would get someone from HD to sit up and pay attention.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

Spoke again to HD Customer Service on Vrod vibration problem. They had nothing to offer but said that their techs would. I axed if I could speak to one of them. Was told that I could not but this time I was given a "reference number" that I was to take to my dealer. My dealer's techs could then try to determine problem and using "reference number" they could discuss with HD techs. Took bike in today to San Jose HD. Gave them list of possibilites that I had gleaned from this forum and from Vrod Service Manual and gave them "reference number". Will post any progress when bike is returned. Hope it will be back by Thursday as we all are heading for Hollister this Friday and Saturday.

Roger
Silicon Valley Ca.

 

[sxrxrnr]

The most intense vibrations occur between 3 and 4 thousand rpm in any gear. Perhaps some would say that this range of rpm in 5th gear is lugging a vrod, but there is no lugging going on in 1st or 2nd gear at these rpm's. This is a pounding vibration that I am experiencing,(somewhat akin to what you would feel in an automobile with a out of balance driveshaft--not merely front wheels) not lugging/bucking. Again perhaps this a feature of the Vrod, but I do not believe that Porsche or HD would foist such a feature on their customers and call it normal. My Heritage Softail is like 6 cylinder Honda compared to the Vrod in smoothness and of course it too is a V twin.

I would be interested to hear from any Vrod owners who report smoothness thru their grips, seats and pegs and those who report a strong vibration. I would like to hear HD Vrod engineering tell us what is normal and what is not but so far unable to get any info at all on this from HD Customer Service. If they could prove to me that this is a feature of this engine I would not be pleased but I would have no further complaint and would live with it.

Seems that we could put this problem to bed if they would supply this information. Perhaps it will take a Lemon Law claim to gain their attention to offer up this info.

My personal opinion is that it is related to the exhaust mounting(as pointed out by previous parties who have posted to this thread) system and as a second choice the motor mount design.

Roger
Silicon Valley Ca.

 

[sxrxrnr]

Picked up bike today from dealer. Earlier post I noted that HD Customer Service had given me a reference number and told me to give to my dealer so that dealer could call HD tech's for assistance on vibration problem. This turned into quite a tale that I will recap here..


1. Dropped bike off Tuesday at 9:30 AM. Gave them a 2 page document on what to check and also included reference number.

2. Arrived back home at 10:15 and immediately phone rang and it was dealer's service dept. Was asked by them if bike had done 1000 mile serivce(bike now has 1500 miles). I said yes. They axed by whom. I said by me. They said that they had found 2 things that were not correct. I axed what. Was told tire pressure and main drive belt tension. I told them that tire pressure should be right on(of course I had just ridden 15 miles to their site and tires were now warm(specs call for cold tires) and of course we all know how inaccurate tire gauges can be. They then said belt was too tight. I said I had checked during my service and it was right on at 6mm deflection at 10 pounds pressure(since service I had replace stock chain guards with HD chrome one's--these do not have deflection measurement slot as do stock ones). So they said that they question the validity of my service. I told them to do whatever they felt was lacking(I knew I had skipped no steps but to please them and get on with the warranty service, I told them to perform whatever they were unhappy with and I would pay the expense).

Today(Thursday July 1, 2004) I picked up the bike and was presented with a bill for 293.00. I questioned this of course and was told that they had performed a full service(their 1000 mile charge is 350.00----yes I know) minus a credit for oil and filter change(I guess they believed me on this). So then some minor fireworks began.

3. They then suggested that the tight belt was the cause of my vibration and suggested that I ride the bike to see if the vibration had been improved. I did this, I returned and told them that possibly it was better but I was uncertain. They said they had also done the "fuel flange" recall. I told them that I had axed my selling dealer on this and been assured several times that it had been done(bike had also gone thru an intense stalling problem some time back that was finally resolved with the proper ecm(02a) download for 30 tooth SE exhaust.. They responded that HD corporate records did not indicate that this had been done, so they did it again anyway.

4. So as we debated whether I should have to pay this 293.00(they said had to do entire service because they felt if tire pressure was off and belt was tight, what else had I screwed up on that could have led to a "vibration" problem. They finally brought the technician in(he had as I found from him worked on HD's since 1955 and had spent 2 weeks at HD's Vrod school) to discuss with me. He said that belt was too tight, I said how could I have measured differently. I suggested that perhaps he had checked hot(again I had just ridden 15 miles). He said belt does not change hot or cold. Then he axed if I had someone sitting on the bike when I measured it myself. I said no as I did not know that this was a requrement. He said that it was. Based upon this input from him, I felt that I had screwed up and perhaps belt was too tight(however this would not explain how it got out of the factory that way or thru my selling dealer's setup) and finally we agreed that I would pay a fee of 250.00(a 15 percent discount). I was skeptical and dubious but paid and left on good terms as I thought at least with a new fuel flange, another check of ecm(02a) and several items on my list to check such as binding exhaust, bad coils, spark plug gap, fuel pressure, motor mounts, etc etc that perhaps my vibration would be gone or at least I would know that these bikes are supposed to vibrate and that my remaining stalling problem would be gone. Bike of course stalled on the way home one time........... Incidently I never did find if the dealer techs called HD techs to discuss the so called reference number given to me by HD Customer Service.

5. So now I go home, grab my Vrod service manual, check belt tension section. Manual says on page 1-28 of 2003 manual "Check rear belt tension with motorcycle COLD, standing upright, transmission in NEUTRAL and NO rider on motorcycle". Now this is not what I was told my Vrod tech. He said that temp made no difference on how loose or tight belt was and that must have rider on the bike.

Questions that I have are: Which is correct the manual or the tech? Did I just pay 250.00 to get baffled with BS? Do dealers normally do this just to teach us all a lesson not to do your own maintenance and take food off their tables? What was suggested to me is that by having done my own maintenance that HD warranty coverage was hit or miss.



I would like to post this as a new thread for all to read and comment on. Is there a method that I can do it without re-keying it all. Which would be the best section?

Sorry for War and Peace. Please excuse any typos.

On our way to Hollister tomorrow.

Roger
Silicon Valley, Ca

 

[sxrxrnr]

Called HD Customer Service. Spoke to Michelle. She spoke to Vrod Tech. HD Vrod manual says adjust drive belt with NO rider aboard. HD Vrod Owners manual says adjust with rider. HD Vrod tech says must be adjusted COLD, WITHOUT rider and that Owners manual is incorrect.

My dealer was incorrect. Based upon their incorrect assesement I was persauded by them to pay them to redo the 1000 mile service that I had already completed myself. As it now stands I was correct when I told them that I had checked belt tension without a rider. They were incorrect when they said must be checked with a rider aboard. Wonder how many incorrectly adjusted Vrod belts are running around out there?

Trust but Verify!

Sxrxrnr
Silicon Valley

 

[sxrxrnr]

I am one of the original posters of these vibration/stalling threads. I have gone thru a lot with a couple of HD dealers and HD customer service, so far to no success. Vibration is most intense between 3 and 4 thousand rpm and seems much less above and below these numbers. If you disengage clutch, bike is totally smooth which should rule out wheel/tire and probably belt problems. You all can check my posts on this topic under my handle for further info on what I have done to seek a solution.

The latest news is that I called HD customer service(I really do hate to call it that) and told them that my latest dealer had not even followed up on the reference number that they had HD had given to me to give to my dealer to have them call HD for assistance. I then said that bike had been in numerous times for stalling and vibration problems to no success. I said that I was about to invoke my rights under California's Lemon Law(even though I would hate to give up a silver/black 03 bike). I then a few days later get a call from one of my local dealers where the bike had been several times. They have axed that I bring it in again and this time they will follow up on ALL suggestions that I had given them for possible problem/solutions(gathered from this Forum and the HD manuals) and would put on a dyno(as I had requested several times) and would call HD on the TWO "reference numbers" given to me my HD customer service.

I do not know if this dealer was responding from pressure from HD or was responding to the 2 page single spaced letter that I had written to them following my previous visit in July, where among other things I told them that the belt tension was to be checked with NO rider on the bike(as per service manual and HD customer service V-rod tech) instead of rider on the bike(as per owner's manual) and also gave them the business for not even calling HD on the reference number.

Appointment is set for next Wed. For the past few weeks I have been riding my Heritage as the Vrod I feel is unsafe because of stalling issues and the vibration is just plain annoying and I sense is not adding to the long term reliability of the bike in general.

I say for now that this has all been a an experience that HD should be ashamed of and I suspect that many owners with less mechanical experience then myself(been racing and showing automobiles for some 45 years) long ago just gave up, or accept stalling and vibrations as normal, or do not have a clue that something is unusual. Shame on HD, Porsche and HD dealers.

Sxrxrnr
Silicon Valley Ca

1956 Chrysler 300 B, Number 1 condition
1971 Corvette 450 HP small block/Doug Nash 5 sp
03 Heritage..Silver/Black CNC 95 engine
03 V-Rod Silver/Black
1998 Yellow Labrador Retriever named Obi