Harley Davidson V-Rod Forum banner

21 - 39 of 39 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,332 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
i had a vrod in here with the same symptoms you describe and the dyno tec couldnt get rid of the stutter upon roll on.i tested the tps and it seemed fine ,but replaced it anyway.fixed the problem.they are cheep and its good to eliminate that as the problem.
This isn't a dyno tuning problem. After installing the SE Stage 2 cams and big TBs the bike had the flat spot from hell at 3500 rpm and the hp curve went down from 4000-5000 rpm. I took it to a dyno shop that tunes a lot of V-Rods and after a couple of hours the tuner had the bike running beautifully. He spent a great deal of time working on the 3500-5000 rpm range and the 7500-9000 rpm range. That is why I went topless, to cure the roll off in power after 7500 rpm we had with the full air box in place (even with my oversized intake snorkel). When he was finished the bike idled and ran smoother than it ever did. It was so smooth it was eerie.

This problem is something different. At cold start it only fires on one cylinder and the problem did not show up until a week or so ago. Prior to that there was no problem. I either developed a pinhole leak in a fuel hose, the fuel pressure regulator has a problem or the fuel system has somehow been contaminated. When we check the pressure Thursday afternoon I will know more.
 

·
Noel
Joined
·
4,579 Posts
I checked an original set of coils from the Destroyer 3900 ohms for the secondary (spark) circuit, 0.6 ohms on the primary circuit.

Then I check the newer coils I installed last year, these are the ones with only one fastener tab, the secondary circuits in both coils were 1700 ohms and the primary were 0.5 ohms.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,925 Posts
I checked an original set of coils from the Destroyer 3900 ohms for the secondary (spark) circuit, 0.6 ohms on the primary circuit.

Then I check the newer coils I installed last year, these are the ones with only one fastener tab, the secondary circuits in both coils were 1700 ohms and the primary were 0.5 ohms.
So are these newer coils better or worse than the older ones?? I so in another thread the spring design was also different but reading here apparently the resistances are different??
 

·
Noel
Joined
·
4,579 Posts
Thanks, are the ones with the newer spring design any better than the old ones? Asking since I might have a hold off a new set but of the older type, just checking if the wait for the newer is worth it
This is now the OEM version being installed on all production bikes in the past several years I can't see being any worse.

I'm not aware of any negative opinions, limited use in my application.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Philthy.......


I have almost exactly the same issue as you have described. A "miss" or Pop, but only occasionally, just as you stated. I too have checked brand new coils against the ESM values. On the low resistance side, I am .1 ohm over the max. On high resistance side I am about half what book says. I have checked 4 coils so far, mine, and 2 brand new ones. I refused to take the new ones, as I checked them right at parts counter, and showed the specs to parts guy. As of this moment in time I am awaiting the arrival of 2 other new coils. I asked a friend to check his, as his bike runs well. His low resistance side was within spec, but the high was same as mine. So, long story short.......... Please share what you found as to correct values, or, more importantly, did you fix it, and if so, how. Please, help a guy out!!!!!!!!! LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Philthy.......


I have almost exactly the same issue as you have described. A "miss" or Pop, but only occasionally, just as you stated. I too have checked brand new coils against the ESM values. On the low resistance side, I am .1 ohm over the max. On high resistance side I am about half what book says. I have checked 4 coils so far, mine, and 2 brand new ones. I refused to take the new ones, as I checked them right at parts counter, and showed the specs to parts guy. As of this moment in time I am awaiting the arrival of 2 other new coils. I asked a friend to check his, as his bike runs well. His low resistance side was within spec, but the high was same as mine. So, long story short.......... Please share what you found as to correct values, or, more importantly, did you fix it, and if so, how. Please, help a guy out!!!!!!!!! LOL
Not sure you will get a reply, he hasn't been active on this site for over 4 years.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,248 Posts
Philthy.......


I have almost exactly the same issue as you have described. A "miss" or Pop, but only occasionally, just as you stated. I too have checked brand new coils against the ESM values. On the low resistance side, I am .1 ohm over the max. On high resistance side I am about half what book says. I have checked 4 coils so far, mine, and 2 brand new ones. I refused to take the new ones, as I checked them right at parts counter, and showed the specs to parts guy. As of this moment in time I am awaiting the arrival of 2 other new coils. I asked a friend to check his, as his bike runs well. His low resistance side was within spec, but the high was same as mine. So, long story short.......... Please share what you found as to correct values, or, more importantly, did you fix it, and if so, how. Please, help a guy out!!!!!!!!! LOL
The current ignition coils (P/N 32477-01A) have the following resistance specs:
ion sense resistance: (Terminals A & B) >100K Ω
primary resistance: (Terminals B & C) 0.3 to 0.5 Ω
secondary resistance: (Terminal A & spark plug connector) 1700 Ω ± ?Ω​
The Harley service manuals (even the latest versions) list the specs for the earlier ignition coils (P/N 32477-01) where the first two values are the same but a secondary resistance value of 4000 Ω ± 500 Ω is shown. I'm not sure what the secondary resistance tolerance value is for the current coils but it's likely ± 200 Ω.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Steve
Thank you very much!!!!!!!
While this does not solve my "pop" it enables me to properly determine that the coils are not the culprit. At least 4 weeks of my life i wont get back.........LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,986 Posts
The current ignition coils (P/N 32477-01A) have the following resistance specs:
ion sense resistance: (Terminals A & B) >100K Ω
primary resistance: (Terminals B & C) 0.3 to 0.5 Ω
secondary resistance: (Terminal A & spark plug connector) 1700 Ω ± ?Ω​
The Harley service manuals (even the latest versions) list the specs for the earlier ignition coils (P/N 32477-01) where the first two values are the same but a secondary resistance value of 4000 Ω ± 500 Ω is shown. I'm not sure what the secondary resistance tolerance value is for the current coils but it's likely ± 200 Ω.
I'd give it a bit more, maybe. Recently tested mine with all the confusion John was having with late model values. Taking the error factor out of the VOM, 1.2k on one and .2 on another meter, mine came in at 1755 ohms. Primary and Ion ohms the same as the older coil specs. To me 17-18k secondary, would seem to be about the ballpark. It's good to have this once and for all documented and keep people from buying coils only to find the new ones don't spec out to the non updated EM specs. Wonder how many have been screwed over by the dealers that are unaware also, using outdated resistance specs?
Ron
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,248 Posts
I'd give it a bit more, maybe. Recently tested mine with all the confusion John was having with late model values. Taking the error factor out of the VOM, 1.2k on one and .2 on another meter, mine came in at 1755 ohms. Primary and Ion ohms the same as the older coil specs. To me 17-18k secondary, would seem to be about the ballpark. It's good to have this once and for all documented and keep people from buying coils only to find the new ones don't spec out to the non updated EM specs. Wonder how many have been screwed over by the dealers that are unaware also, using outdated resistance specs?
Ron
What do you mean by "give it a bit more"?

1700 Ω ± 200 Ω would give a range of 1500 to 1900 Ω. This is proportional to the range and tolerance of the older coils that are spec at 4000 Ω ± 500 Ω. Your proposed range of 1700 to 1800 Ω would mean 1750 Ω ± 50 Ω. That's a smaller tolerance. I can't argue with either value since I don't have any of the newer coils to test or enough measured values to determine range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,986 Posts
What do you mean by "give it a bit more"?

1700 Ω ± 200 Ω would give a range of 1500 to 1900 Ω. This is proportional to the range and tolerance of the older coils that are spec at 4000 Ω ± 500 Ω. Your proposed range of 1700 to 1800 Ω would mean 1750 Ω ± 50 Ω. That's a smaller tolerance. I can't argue with either value since I don't have any of the newer coils to test or enough measured values to determine range.
I have no way to prove anything either other then the book is wrong regarding late model coils. I can live with a proposed +/-200.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
My dealer just called. The 2bd set of new ones are in. I told him what the HD "help" line told me about the updated values. They "will not give them to a customer but take the bike to the dealer and have them fix it". So i also told parts guy to ask his service manager to call the "dealer only tech line" and get the updated values. Otherwise, when i come to pick up the coils, i will be using the old values, and ill be sending back my second set of coils, and i will keep doing this until they can prove to me (hopefully in writing) what the new "good" values are. Im pissed now, and its personal. Ron has been a tremendous resourse and to some extent inspiration for me. He gave me the values steve did a couple days previous, so its good to have that confirmed. WE, collectively, and in some cases individually have paid the motor co. For a service manual, ASSUMING the information inside was correct. It is obviously not, and in my case, they said they cannot give me the correct values. At which point i corrected him. It is not that you cannot, as i am certain the motor company HAS the info, its just he WILL NOT give it to me. He reluctantly agreed. And then he told me to go to my dealer and have THEM fix MY bike. No way, no way in hell...... it will rot in a corner first.
Anyhow, if i get this info confirmed, ill let you know. Wish me luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Ok. Here it goes........
Went to dealer to check 2nd set of coils. He had called tech line, who gave the values mentioned above, then told the parts manager to look on p. 6-57 of 2017 service manual. Its all there. In black and white. All values.................
I have a 2015 service manual, and it dosent HAVE a page 6-57....... Gggggggrrrrrrrrr
Anyhow the values are: coil primary resistance- measured between B&C .3 to .5 ohms. Coil secondary resistance between terminal A and plug end- 1700 to 2000 ohms. Ion sense resistance- must be greater than 100,000 ohms, measured between terminal A and B
Hope this helps............
Wasted 4 weeks of my life on this........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,986 Posts
Ok. Here it goes........
Went to dealer to check 2nd set of coils. He had called tech line, who gave the values mentioned above, then told the parts manager to look on p. 6-57 of 2017 service manual. Its all there. In black and white. All values.................
I have a 2015 service manual, and it dosent HAVE a page 6-57....... Gggggggrrrrrrrrr
Anyhow the values are: coil primary resistance- measured between B&C .3 to .5 ohms. Coil secondary resistance between terminal A and plug end- 1700 to 2000 ohms. Ion sense resistance- must be greater than 100,000 ohms, measured between terminal A and B
Hope this helps............
Wasted 4 weeks of my life on this........
Glad that's all sorted out once and for all. We thank you for the updated specs.
Ron
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top