My own map

5045 Views 41 Replies 3 Participants Last post by rbabos, Jun 20, 2018

johnr204

Discussion Starter · Apr 28, 2018

'15, V&H slip ons topless, HD free flow air cleaner. Found a map on here that was very close to my setup. Acceleration ok, not great, popping on decel, but the idle "hunting" was gone. (Small steps) I did a flight recording, and played back on laptop. Was not able to figure out how to allow software itself to generate needed changes, despite Ron's suggestion. (I'm missin something here). Anyhow, I modified the map. Changed air/fuel map to be straight across the board 13.2:1. Also advanced timing front and rear, across the board by 3%. Uploaded, did about an hour flight recording. Acceleration is incredible. Idle good. The 02 sensors front and rear rear very close to each other throughout band, which want the case before. I am VERY impressed with my shot in the dark. Still pops on decel, but not as bad. Any position of throttle other than all the way back to idle, popping goes away. While I'm certainly no expert, I'm pluggin away. I'm aware this isn't right, but that thing RUNS...........
Thoughts are more than welcome, and VERY MUCH appreciated. Thanks in advance.
John

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rbabos

· #2 · Apr 28, 2018

johnr204 said:
'15, V&H slip ons topless, HD free flow air cleaner. Found a map on here that was very close to my setup. Acceleration ok, not great, popping on decel, but the idle "hunting" was gone. (Small steps) I did a flight recording, and played back on laptop. Was not able to figure out how to allow software itself to generate needed changes, despite Ron's suggestion. (I'm missin something here). Anyhow, I modified the map. Changed air/fuel map to be straight across the board 13.2:1. Also advanced timing front and rear, across the board by 3%. Uploaded, did about an hour flight recording. Acceleration is incredible. Idle good. The 02 sensors front and rear rear very close to each other throughout band, which want the case before. I am VERY impressed with my shot in the dark. Still pops on decel, but not as bad. Any position of throttle other than all the way back to idle, popping goes away. While I'm certainly no expert, I'm pluggin away. I'm aware this isn't right, but that thing RUNS...........
Thoughts are more than welcome, and VERY MUCH appreciated. Thanks in advance.
John

Not to be an AH but my suggestion was read the pdf manuals. This might take some time before it makes sense and you are ready to actually tune. It's all there to do everything you need. I just browsed though it. Way, way too much to cover from square one otherwise. What you are doing with manual cal edits will never produce a good tune. Use the TTS system as designed and it will work much better. Make sure you do the updates from the update manager first. Just loading the disc, not all important items are there. Updates in the update manager will show what needs updating. I suspect there's something missing in the cal set up or datamaster to prevent logging or some procedure isn't followed. Hard to tell which on my end.
Ron

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 29, 2018

Hey Ron. No offence taken, at all. I am completely aware the issue is me. I have updated, and read, and reread the .pdf's on tuning, and updating, and every word contained within. I have a good understanding of HOW it works. And also the end goal. This morning I tried autotune using the 3d software. I tried loading my file I loaded on bike. Where it says choose file, I found where I had saved it and it wouldn't take it.
My plan now is to actually print off all the pdf's, so I can do step by step what's said. That's hard to do when I need to close what I'm doing and open the pdf, read, then find where I left off. I'm an old ****, and not puter savvy. If this was a carb, I'd be done in a couple hours. I WILL win, but it would help me ALOT if someone could show me, just once, how. I'm tryin dude, and do not plan on giving up.

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rbabos

· #4 · Apr 29, 2018

johnr204 said:
Hey Ron. No offence taken, at all. I am completely aware the issue is me. I have updated, and read, and reread the .pdf's on tuning, and updating, and every word contained within. I have a good understanding of HOW it works. And also the end goal. This morning I tried autotune using the 3d software. I tried loading my file I loaded on bike. Where it says choose file, I found where I had saved it and it wouldn't take it.
My plan now is to actually print off all the pdf's, so I can do step by step what's said. That's hard to do when I need to close what I'm doing and open the pdf, read, then find where I left off. I'm an old ****, and not puter savvy. If this was a carb, I'd be done in a couple hours. I WILL win, but it would help me ALOT if someone could show me, just once, how. I'm tryin dude, and do not plan on giving up.

Unfortunately there is a lot of stuff in the pdfs that at first don't make sense, only confuse and not really needed at this stage. There is only a very small area you need at this point. The rest is for advanced tuning. Over time, that makes sense too . I've PM' d you on a suggestion that should help.
Ron

jfisher

· #5 · May 23, 2018

Hey John, any update on your journey so far? I am planning to tackle my own tune myself here in the next couple of weeks.

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 24, 2018

Well...there's no easy answer. There is a member here who has helped me a great deal, but I dont have his permission to use his name, so I won't. What was suggested, and I did. Find a copy of TTS for dummies. DO NOT be insulted by the title. I downloaded it and printed off a copy so I could read as I execute the operations. This helped A GREAT DEAL. The TTS manuals also are VERY helpful, but are written assuming one has a really good understanding of all the tables, and a basic understanding of the process. I have a better understanding now, but so far it has been a pretty painstaking process. It is methodical. Step by step. One cannot take shortcuts because one does not understand what's goin on with the step one is on. Although over time, and MANY flights, I was able to develop a pretty good tune for the bike in its then configuration. Recently, I installed stage 2 cams from HD, and the tune that I so painstakingly developed well, its crap now. So, without a good base tune, one must develop their own, and if you think tweaking an existing, close to right tune is difficult, this tops that. However IT CAN BE DONE. I still believe TTS is the BEST tuner on the market, without question. I may, and stress MAY have a professional do the tuning for the cams.
Once, when I was super frustrated I looked into another brand, sold through fuelmoto, because they advertise "we have base maps for every configuration ". The response I got was "we dont have a map for that. S2 cams are tricky and we advise dynotuning" . I can forward you the emails if you like. So I went back to the best, and will get it one way or the other.
Good luck

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jfisher

· #7 · May 24, 2018

johnr204 said:
Well...there's no easy answer. There is a member here who has helped me a great deal, but I dont have his permission to use his name, so I won't. What was suggested, and I did. Find a copy of TTS for dummies. DO NOT be insulted by the title. I downloaded it and printed off a copy so I could read as I execute the operations. This helped A GREAT DEAL. The TTS manuals also are VERY helpful, but are written assuming one has a really good understanding of all the tables, and a basic understanding of the process. I have a better understanding now, but so far it has been a pretty painstaking process. It is methodical. Step by step. One cannot take shortcuts because one does not understand what's goin on with the step one is on. Although over time, and MANY flights, I was able to develop a pretty good tune for the bike in its then configuration. Recently, I installed stage 2 cams from HD, and the tune that I so painstakingly developed well, its crap now. So, without a good base tune, one must develop their own, and if you think tweaking an existing, close to right tune is difficult, this tops that. However IT CAN BE DONE. I still believe TTS is the BEST tuner on the market, without question. I may, and stress MAY have a professional do the tuning for the cams.
Once, when I was super frustrated I looked into another brand, sold through fuelmoto, because they advertise "we have base maps for every configuration ". The response I got was "we dont have a map for that. S2 cams are tricky and we advise dynotuning" . I can forward you the emails if you like. So I went back to the best, and will get it one way or the other.
Good luck

Thank you sir! I do agree that the TTS manual is a little further advanced than I am and sometimes leaves me with more questions than answers.

Is this the guide you're referring to?

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/efi-maps-calibrations/143920-tts-v-tune-instructions-doc.html

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 24, 2018

Yes, I believe it was written by Doc. Its title is "TTS for dummies" download it, print it and read and follow, step by step. Itll help
John

rbabos

· #9 · May 24, 2018

The issue with SE2 cams or any cams that increase overlap is it really screws with O2 sampling. This makes using these tuning devices a challenge because often you are dealing with bad data. While tables populate, they may not populate in a fashion the engine actually likes to run well, so the DIYr is left scratching their bag trying to figure out why . Pro tuners, and I'm talking serious guys that do this for a living, not some dealer tuner under the clock, break out the big guns. Wb , Nb, 4 gas sampling or whatever it takes.
TTS should have a better chance with the cam graph, and egr graph over PV in that regard but it's still going to be tough. PV is a best guess only. For TTS, an MT8 or MT9 cal will be needed, since MT7 is not going to offer the cam and egr graph options.
So, John, how did you make out with my bud and the MT8?
Ron

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johnr204

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 24, 2018

Hey Ron!!!!!!
Sent you an email yesterday on that. Check your inbox.
John

rbabos

· #11 · May 24, 2018

johnr204 said:
Hey Ron!!!!!!
Sent you an email yesterday on that. Check your inbox.
John

Not in my inbox but found it at my email provider. Ended up in the deleted folder for some reason. One month huh?. That wouldn't sit well with me. It's either developed or it isn't. I'd keep hounding him because the MT7 will be hell to tune with those cams. Not saying it can't be done but having the extra code helps big time.
Ron

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 24, 2018

Well Ron, the way I see it I (and we) are at their mercy. There is no further market for us. Therefore there is little benefit to develop any further, if that is what is needed. They said that they are going over it, line by line, trying to ensure its ready. To me, when it was dropped, 2yrs ago, was for a reason. Possibly (hopefully) just lost in the shuffle. If I piss em off, well I can guarantee what is NOT gonna happen. I take the man at his word, because I have no reason not to. (And really I'm nobody, in their world)
I'll take it and have it tuned, screw it, if it comes to that. I try to be patient..............
They have their hands full with the Milwaukee 8.

rbabos

· #13 · May 24, 2018

johnr204 said:
Well Ron, the way I see it I (and we) are at their mercy. There is no further market for us. Therefore there is little benefit to develop any further, if that is what is needed. They said that they are going over it, line by line, trying to ensure its ready. To me, when it was dropped, 2yrs ago, was for a reason. Possibly (hopefully) just lost in the shuffle. If I piss em off, well I can guarantee what is NOT gonna happen. I take the man at his word, because I have no reason not to. (And really I'm nobody, in their world)
I'll take it and have it tuned, screw it, if it comes to that. I try to be patient..............
They have their hands full with the Milwaukee 8.

The MT8 cals came out in around 2009 I believe or there abouts. I used it on my softail as an upgrade from the MT7. Looks like they were just forgotten to be published for the v rods as they always have been down the chain for urgency . My softail was also J1850, like the v rods are way back then but the big twins always come first due to numbers. Hope he comes through. I agree, he has no reason to string you along if in fact they don't exist. A simple no and case closed for both parties . I could ask but likely he'd tell me to fk off and go away, based on our history, so I won't rattle his cage.
Ron

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 24, 2018

You made me laugh. Yes, let's just see what happens. If you think you'd upset him, just by asking, then your likely right. Please, be patient!!!!! LMMFAO

jfisher

· #15 · May 25, 2018

Steve Cole?? Maybe I can help by inquiring about the same issue? Might help push things along quicker.

rbabos

· #16 · May 25, 2018

jfisher said:
Steve Cole?? Maybe I can help by inquiring about the same issue? Might help push things along quicker.

Yes, Steve. Can't hurt inquiring. MT8 will be a much better tuning platform to work with. Honestly, I have the black TTS and no way I would attempt the MT7 with a v rod. EGR adjustment is the key to success with these engines for a great, not an ok tune. With Powervision, I guessed my way through EGR or charge dilution as it's called by viewing patterns in the ve table but what a pain it is doing it that way. In Johns case with the SE2 cams the cam graph and EGR in the MT8 would be a blessing.
Ron

rbabos

· #17 · May 25, 2018

jfisher said:
Steve Cole?? Maybe I can help by inquiring about the same issue? Might help push things along quicker.

Yes, Steve. Can't hurt inquiring and spiking more interest. MT8 will be a much better tuning platform to work with. Honestly, I have the black TTS and no way I would attempt the MT7 with a v rod. EGR adjustment is the key to success with these engines for a great, not an ok tune. With Powervision, I guessed my way through EGR or charge dilution as it's called by viewing patterns in the ve table but what a pain it is doing it that way. In Johns case with the SE2 cams the cam graph and EGR in the MT8 would be a blessing.
Ron

johnr204

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 25, 2018

Hey Ron...... check your inbox please

rbabos

· #19 · May 25, 2018

johnr204 said:
Hey Ron...... check your inbox please

Reply sent. Forgot to mention. Each load of a cal, it places it in the file drop down so it should have the last tuners cal there. There will be several, so again, last time stamped one.
Ron

jfisher

· #20 · Jun 1, 2018

rbabos said:
Yes, Steve. Can't hurt inquiring. MT8 will be a much better tuning platform to work with. Honestly, I have the black TTS and no way I would attempt the MT7 with a v rod. EGR adjustment is the key to success with these engines for a great, not an ok tune. With Powervision, I guessed my way through EGR or charge dilution as it's called by viewing patterns in the ve table but what a pain it is doing it that way. In Johns case with the SE2 cams the cam graph and EGR in the MT8 would be a blessing.
Ron

I guess I'm a little confused as to what the issue is then. I sent a note over to them today asking if MT8 and MT9 files are compatible with the older black interface and I got the response of "yes". Can you clarify what the issue is? Are there just no base MT8 or MT9 maps available to start tuning from?

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