[Bill Wallace]

I was loctiting my triple bolt as is advised because they sometimes fall out or back out, and the triple bolt gear turned about an inch clockwise while tightening. Bike was in second gear with someone pressing the brake pedal.

How screwed am I?

 

[Ceigenberger]

Did you feel/hear a timing chain jump? If not, I’d say you’re ok. If so…. It will need to be re timed.

 

[2003 VRod Rider]

All I can find in my manual after quick perusal is: "DO NOT ROTATE ENGINE CLOCKWISE. This is opposite the normal engine operation. Engine damage may result."

It doesn't say what kind of damage or what to do if you've done it. The word "may" sounds promising, though. As in...you probably didn't hurt much in an inch. But a full revolution I suspect would be damaging.

 

[Ceigenberger]

Valve train damage due to being out of time.

 

[frogman_h2o]

crankshaft locking pin # HD-45306 .......... used for multiple maintenance procedures ........ good luck finding one/ or a dealership that will actually sell you one ....... I used to get the tools through my local dealership, but they dropped HD and now I can't find a dealer to sell me the tools ....... not sure if they have an aftermarket ......... Kent-Moore used to make HD tools, not sure if they still do ........

 

[Bill Wallace]

Valve train damage due to being out of time.

That’s what I figured. So motor needs to come out and be timed.

Did you feel/hear a timing chain jump? If not, I’d say you’re ok. If so…. It will need to be re timed.

Far as I can tell, just the triple gear and chains moved, so yes, the timing chains are on the triple gear. I saw the copper timing links move.

 

[Bill Wallace]

So, assuming it’s messed up, whats the fix? Pull the motor and time the cams?

 

[rbabos]

So, assuming it’s messed up, whats the fix? Pull the motor and time the cams?

This is only my opinion based on experimenting. Timing verification is the only 100% safe method. However, unless you heard a crunch or snap in this small amount of rotation, nothing bad happened. When I did my valve shims and all was exposed, I tried the reverse rotation. Stator cover and valve covers were off. Mind you my secondary tensioners were fairly snug in adjustment and although the engine due to reversed chain guide pressures hates turning that way (friction from chain guide pressure) in one revolution it did not jump.
Also remember, when you turn your engine off , it will reverse compression rebound up to 60* but what saves it from jumping there is the secondary chain tensioners have residual oil pressure to keep the tensioners tight. Otherwords each and every Revolution at shutdown does a small reverse rotation, accompanied with that funky starter whine at the same time as the reverse grabs the starter clutch.
Ron

 

[Bill Wallace]

crankshaft locking pin # HD-45306 .......... used for multiple maintenance procedures ........ good luck finding one/ or a dealership that will actually sell you one ....... I used to get the tools through my local dealership, but they dropped HD and now I can't find a dealer to sell me the tools ....... not sure if they have an aftermarket ......... Kent-Moore used to make HD tools, not sure if they still do ........

Drill bit inserted when engine is not tdc. Mark the drill bit. Rotate the engine using the big, deep socket that you welded to some scrap solid pipe you salvaged. Watch wooden dowel inserted into spark plug hole: Mark when you think it’s at tdc. Rotate the engine and see if your mark was tdc or you have to re-Mark it if not.

There aren’t many HD tools you can’t make yourself. Make friends with a good machinist for the other ones.

 

[Bill Wallace]

This is only my opinion based on experimenting. Timing verification is the only 100% safe method. However, unless you heard a crunch or snap in this small amount of rotation, nothing bad happened. When I did my valve shims and all was exposed, I tried the reverse rotation. Stator cover and valve covers were off. Mind you my secondary tensioners were fairly snug in adjustment and although the engine due to reversed chain guide pressures hates turning that way (friction from chain guide pressure) in one revolution it did not jump.
Also remember, when you turn your engine off , it will reverse compression rebound up to 60* but what saves it from jumping there is the secondary chain tensioners have residual oil pressure to keep the tensioners tight. Otherwords each and every Revolution at shutdown does a small reverse rotation, accompanied with that funky starter whine at the same time as the reverse grabs the starter clutch.
Ron

Thanks Ron, I’m glad you’re still on here bailing unfortunate souls like myself out.

The copper timing links were in view on the triple gear for the front cylinder, which is the
”outer” chain. Torque wrench was set to 204 inch pounds (17ft. Lbs. X 12). Cleaned up gear threads and blew them out. Little dab of red loctite on the clean bolt and proceeded to torque. The triple gear moved and I saw the copper timing chain links move about an inch.

Sorry for the long explanation. I just wasn’t sure if you read all of the other posts: I usually don’t.

so what I would be looking at doing, would be timing the cams, correct?. The crank did not move. I had the bike in second, actually I think it was third, Gear.

I’ve also got 15,000 miles on it, so I might as well do the valve lash as well.

Am I correct? Is there anything I’m missing. Sorry to pick your brain. I love this bike and can’t afford another With my tool truck costing 175 to fill with diesel.

 

[Bill Wallace]

Valve train damage due to being out of time.

That’s what I figured. So motor needs to come out and be timed.

Did you feel/hear a timing chain jump? If not, I’d say you’re ok. If so…. It will need to be re timed.

Far as I can tell, just the triple gear and chains moved, so yes, the timing chains are on the triple gear. I saw the copper timing links move.

 

[frogman_h2o]

The copper timing links were in view on the triple gear for the front cylinder,

These are used for initial timing chain installation. after one revolution they will not be in the same place. Need to make sure timing marks on cam gears are in correct alignment with marks on case when appropriate cyl is at TDC

 

[rbabos]

If it really bugs you and you are doing a valve lash check which can be done in the bike, pull the stator cover, valve covers and spark plugs. Turn the engine the correct direction and feel for any unusual resistance as in a sudden mechanical stop feel to it. Stop there. If none keep turning it. There is one point and this might take many revolutions where all the timing marks dots and links will line up with front cylinder at top dead center. This is where the factory times them. Valve shims , you will use your own paint marks for links and sprockets for each cyls cams.
Ron

 

[frogman_h2o]

There is one point and this might take many revolutions where all the timing marks dots and links will line up

How many revolutions will it take ? The world may never know ...............

 

[Bill Wallace]

Did you feel/hear a timing chain jump? If not, I’d say you’re ok. If so…. It will need to be re timed.

I need to understand this better. Ron Rabos said the same thing.

 

[rbabos]

How many revolutions will it take ? The world may never know ...............

Could be one, could be 20 depending on where it is currently but it will at some point line up to factory timing method. Front piston will be at TDCC at that point also.
Ron

 

[rbabos]

I need to understand this better. Ron Rabos said the same thing.

If you only moved that sprocket an inch and heard nothing mechanical click or clunk, I think you are driving yourself into a padded cell for no real reason. 🤣
Ron

 

[Bill Wallace]

If it really bugs you and you are doing a valve lash check which can be done in the bike, pull the stator cover, valve covers and spark plugs. Turn the engine the correct direction and feel for any unusual resistance as in a sudden mechanical stop feel to it. Stop there. If none keep turning it. There is one point and this might take many revolutions where all the timing marks dots and links will line up with front cylinder at top dead center. This is where the factory times them. Valve shims , you will use your own paint marks for links and sprockets for each cyls cams.
Ron

Thanks. And thanks for the attachment. I do have an fsm ffr (for future reference, lol).

These are used for initial timing chain installation. after one revolution they will not be in the same place. Need to make sure timing marks on cam gears are in correct alignment with marks on case when appropriate cyl is at TDC

 

[Bill Wallace]

Ok...now I think I understand this whole situation.

It would be impossible for the cams to move independently of the pistons because they are connected to the crank by a chain. So...when the triple gear moved, the crank would have moved as well, keeping everything timed, regardless of the direction of the rotation. Even though I did not see anything else move, the crank and both cam chains would have had to move together., right? So I should be ok, right?

Sorry guys, I’m a little slow to grasp things sometimes.

Thanks everyone for the help: 1130 is still the best.

 

[rbabos]

Ok...now I think I understand this whole situation.

It would be impossible for the cams to move independently of the pistons because they are connected to the crank by a chain. So...when the triple gear moved, the crank would have moved as well, keeping everything timed, regardless of the direction of the rotation. Even though I did not see anything else move, the crank and both cam chains would have had to move together., right? So I should be ok, right?

Sorry guys, I’m a little slow to grasp things sometimes.

Thanks everyone for the help: 1130 is still the best.

Yes, all will move at the same time. Like I said for the very small amount of reverse rotation you made and heard no snaps or clunks, nothing should have jumped in the timing.
Ron