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Discussion Starter #1
Guys,

I know this is a common issue but it has really been annoying me lately. Id like to tune it out in MT2, however looking at the AFR map I am maxed at 14.6 and cannot increase the mixture at all. Am I looking at this right or is there another way to rich up the 3k-4k area?

Thanks

Dustin
 

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Guys,

I know this is a common issue but it has really been annoying me lately. Id like to tune it out in MT2, however looking at the AFR map I am maxed at 14.6 and cannot increase the mixture at all. Am I looking at this right or is there another way to rich up the 3k-4k area?

Thanks

Dustin
You should be able to set the AFR table to whatever you want, however if you want to keep this area in closed loop (14.6) increase the CLB tables in this area then do a few more tuning runs. This will increase the ve in both tables at those rpms in this area and will be richer. Not sure what your cal is set for in the CLB tables but around 720 for starters sounds about right. I'd go from 3750 down to idle with the 720 CLB edits. 4-5k should be in the 500 area. Higher then that cruise MPG will suffer.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You should be able to set the AFR table to whatever you want, however if you want to keep this area in closed loop (14.6) increase the CLB tables in this area then do a few more tuning runs. This will increase the ve in both tables at those rpms in this area and will be richer. Not sure what your cal is set for in the CLB tables but around 720 for starters sounds about right. I'd go from 3750 down to idle with the 720 CLB edits. 4-5k should be in the 500 area. Higher then that cruise MPG will suffer.
Ron
So looking at my cbm map (Im running off a base map I installed a few years ago) Everything is set at 700.. I am assuming this is someone running without closed loop? So If I increment value for the 3500rpm range, should I do it for all MAP(kPa) ?
 

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So looking at my cbm map (Im running off a base map I installed a few years ago) Everything is set at 700.. I am assuming this is someone running without closed loop? So If I increment value for the 3500rpm range, should I do it for all MAP(kPa) ?
Clbs are what the O2 sensors target and if the AFR table is set to 14.6, that's the switch to remain in closed loop. If you go below 14.6 in the afr table the cal is in open loop and runs strictly off of the ve tables. Those ve's might not be correct however so best to establish them with closed loop whenever possible.
Only richen the problem area clbs for now on both cyls. The RPM and KPA problem spot of each CLB tables. If it's default 700 and still lean, go to a max of 780 in that area only and run a couple of tuning runs to get higher ve's in that area and see if it solves it.
Going more then 800 clb it starts to put the sensors out of range to be able to target especially if they age. I settled on 760 for my bike in that spot.
Failing any closed loop fix, and this can happen if reversion is bad in that rpm range, you can place the problem area of the AFR table to 14.5 which places those areas into open loop. Then hit the VE tables with a 5% increase at a time, front and rear cyls in the problem areas until it clears up. There's no need to tune since there is no O2 input. Just ride it to test results. This is manual trial and error to get it right.
Second option is to leave existing VE's in both tables and drop the afr in the problem area by .2 at a time until it runs good. You could end up as low as 13.5 +/-, whatever it takes. Same thing, adjust and ride.
Can't help much more since Cole pissed me off at one time and removed TTS off of my computer and went PV instead. Tuning methods are about the same for both but I cannot access your tune to view it.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So after I increase the clbs in the rpm area I need to vtune? I have never done a vtune which is why I'm asking. I added a base file and it seemed to be great so I never bothered with tuning.. By just increasing the clb you wont change anything until you combine the tune data with the map? So kinda out of my element here, more of a mechanical guy
 

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So after I increase the clbs in the rpm area I need to vtune? I have never done a vtune which is why I'm asking. I added a base file and it seemed to be great so I never bothered with tuning.. By just increasing the clb you wont change anything until you combine the tune data with the map? So kinda out of my element here, more of a mechanical guy
Well, there's your problem. A base cal is just that, a more or less conglomanation of shit numbers that might work. They, (cals) on the most part never saw a dyno to get those numbers in the cal. Only a starting point. I would in that case do some vtune sessions on that base cal with no edits done to it. I'd read up on the process, you know that boring PDF that comes with it? LOL. If after about 8 runs it don't improve, then increase the CLB in the low end area only if it's still not right. Correct on the no changes until the vtune data is accepted to produce a new cal. That new cal is then again vtuned until you start to see delta's of no more 2-3 ve changes. It's basically tuned by then or at least tuned to the requested CLBs which may or may not give you the tune you like but they can be dealt with if needed later.
If CLBs are changed and not vtuned, yes it will alter the ve through adaptive learn. There will be new ve numbers unseen in the ECM but not in the calibration. If you vtuned changed CLBs then the VE's will be changed at each vtune process. The closer you new VE's by vtuning the less effective changes adaptive learn has on it. That's desirable for a stable tune.
Use smooth deliberate increases of the throttle when vtuning for data. How you collect data is greatly effected on the ve numbers it will generate with vtune so try and make each run the same in riding style.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, there's your problem. A base cal is just that, a more or less conglomanation of shit numbers that might work. They, (cals) on the most part never saw a dyno to get those numbers in the cal. Only a starting point. I would in that case do some vtune sessions on that base cal with no edits done to it. I'd read up on the process, you know that boring PDF that comes with it? LOL. If after about 8 runs it don't improve, then increase the CLB in the low end area only if it's still not right. Correct on the no changes until the vtune data is accepted to produce a new cal. That new cal is then again vtuned until you start to see delta's of no more 2-3 ve changes. It's basically tuned by then or at least tuned to the requested CLBs which may or may not give you the tune you like but they can be dealt with if needed later.
If CLBs are changed and not vtuned, yes it will alter the ve through adaptive learn. There will be new ve numbers unseen in the ECM but not in the calibration. If you vtuned changed CLBs then the VE's will be changed at each vtune process. The closer you new VE's by vtuning the less effective changes adaptive learn has on it. That's desirable for a stable tune.
Use smooth deliberate increases of the throttle when vtuning for data. How you collect data is greatly effected on the ve numbers it will generate with vtune so try and make each run the same in riding style.
Ron
Damn your not kidding that .pdf is boring... I can make sense of most of it, however it is saying that you must have a .MT8 file installed.. Pretty sure I'm running a .mt7 base map
 

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Damn your not kidding that .pdf is boring... I can make sense of most of it, however it is saying that you must have a .MT8 file installed.. Pretty sure I'm running a .mt7 base map
There are no MT8 files for the v rod. You need MT7 with the 177 software level calibration.
Not sure how or if MT2 deals with that. I'm sure most of the gloss and glitter features will not work in the 177 cals. It should still be able to vtune the bike however. I will find out about that. In the mean time, are you sure there are no v rod cals listed and or in the drop down menu for cals?
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #9
There are no MT8 files for the v rod. You need MT7 with the 177 software level calibration.
Not sure how or if MT2 deals with that. I'm sure most of the gloss and glitter features will not work in the 177 cals. It should still be able to vtune the bike however. I will find out about that. In the mean time, are you sure there are no v rod cals listed and or in the drop down menu for cals?
Ron
Oh there are standard cals, but they are way off from what I have in the bike with stage 1 and stage 2. I would hate to have to start from stock, wouldnt that make the bike run like shit until it tunes?
 

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Oh there are standard cals, but they are way off from what I have in the bike with stage 1 and stage 2. I would hate to have to start from stock, wouldnt that make the bike run like shit until it tunes?
If you have a TTS cal in there now and you can obviously see it ,why not just tune that one ?
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you have a TTS cal in there now and you can obviously see it ,why not just tune that one ?
Ron
Well I just did a first run of about 50 mins or so, combined the data with my baseline in Vtune2. It looks like the VE's in the trouble spots are actually lower, I would have expected them to be higher..

Havent had a chance to ride after I uploaded this map to the bike but Ill do another run tomorrow. Do you suggest combining the base map with the multiple DM runs or the combined map with the new run?
 

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Well I just did a first run of about 50 mins or so, combined the data with my baseline in Vtune2. It looks like the VE's in the trouble spots are actually lower, I would have expected them to be higher..

Havent had a chance to ride after I uploaded this map to the bike but Ill do another run tomorrow. Do you suggest combining the base map with the multiple DM runs or the combined map with the new run?
Keep riding and tuning the same cal in sequence with each vtune.
You don't need to ride that long. Generally going through the gears with smooth throttle input about 4-5 times will hit the cells. Once hit, you can drive all day and they will not change. For example, the idle ve's will be hit and locked even before you hit the street. I try to make about 5, from idle to 7k runs, smooth throttle and shifting normally, usually a back road somewhere then come back and generate a new tune. It dials in quicker this way and saves time and fuel. At all cost, avoid coasting with light loads or light overrunning the engines. If you need to stop, make sure you role the throttle to the stop or pull the clutch in. Otherwise it will generate ve's that are not inducive to good running in light load areas later, generally too rich, fooling one into thinking it's lean in that area.
Don't know what your ve table started at but rich and lean can cause the skip, miss crap. Exhaust tone is generally the clue for rich or lean. Lean has a crisp poppy sound even if running smooth.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Keep riding and tuning the same cal in sequence with each vtune.
You don't need to ride that long. Generally going through the gears with smooth throttle input about 4-5 times will hit the cells. Once hit, you can drive all day and they will not change. For example, the idle ve's will be hit and locked even before you hit the street. I try to make about 5, from idle to 7k runs, smooth throttle and shifting normally, usually a back road somewhere then come back and generate a new tune. It dials in quicker this way and saves time and fuel. At all cost, avoid coasting with light loads or light overrunning the engines. If you need to stop, make sure you role the throttle to the stop or pull the clutch in. Otherwise it will generate ve's that are not inducive to good running in light load areas later, generally too rich, fooling one into thinking it's lean in that area.
Don't know what your ve table started at but rich and lean can cause the skip, miss crap. Exhaust tone is generally the clue for rich or lean. Lean has a crisp poppy sound even if running smooth.
Ron
Thanks Ron! I ran about 5 good runs and all that stutter is now gone.. Damn the bike runs so much smoother.. I should have done this when I installed the cams.. Unfortunately I wasnt riding my bike much at the time due to work out of the country.. But yeah much appreciated man!

Dustin
 

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Thanks Ron! I ran about 5 good runs and all that stutter is now gone.. Damn the bike runs so much smoother.. I should have done this when I installed the cams.. Unfortunately I wasnt riding my bike much at the time due to work out of the country.. But yeah much appreciated man!

Dustin
You're welcome. Don't forget the AFR table reset when all done vtuning.
Ron
 
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