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Yes, rod bolts backing out would do it but if you look the intact rod bolt looks seated, and damaged on one side only indicating no spinning, but it still hit the C/B'er enough to machine a trench in it. Whatever happened it got worse as the final hit looks, as I said before, on the rt side of the C/B'er cheek - it's the one that bent the con rod cap hole ( on the side of the sheared off head rod bolt ) - you'd think all that crashing of parts together would have made a hell of a racket but that's as deep in the engine as you can get so maybe not -
Sharp conclusion. Clearly conrod bolts have not backed out slowly.

I have seen the big end break and engine still runs. The crank would break but would not come apart. Because its mounting would not allow it to seperate.As far as the bolts backing out. High unlikely both rod bolts did that. But anything's possible.
This is also interesting theory. Everything can happen indeed.

What comes to BC shaft itself it looks like it have weak spot. There goes large M10 bolt thru and serrated portion is only approx.15mm diameter outside. So wall thickness is only few millimeters there. Balancer mass portion is quite heavy and if that M10 bolt is loose serrations have to bear all the torq what comes to rotate its inertia. No axial force hence no friction to contribute resist torq. In the case of open bolt shaft fatigue strength is limited. So maybe that serrated end has started to twist and leading mass part out sync.
 

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Could also be the alt side bearing clip missing or came out allowing the balancer to move inward and lose tooth engagement. Problem is, as with most guessing, it's never what we thought it was. Need to tear down and find the real reason.
Ron
 

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True as I have already said. But the clunk if description is correct. Could possibly be the crank breaking and valve hitting piston. Cant picture anything, because the crank is held in place by the main bearing caps and thrust washers.. The gear on crank is one it appears. Counter balance moving by the way marks look like straight rotational hit. No side or other movement. Besides its fun guessing. 😆
 

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Ron I thought what you mentioned was the Ah Ha moment - so I went & looked at my 1250 cases and counter balancer ( which I removed before ) but the ALT side circlip is on the inside and the bearing is unable to move outboard due to it bottoms in a stepped bore hole in the case and the shaft has a larger radius just inboard of the bearing race which has a land that rides / contains the needle bearings and prevents movement toward the ALT side - Unless the needles somehow got out of there it's not moving to the left, and disengaging the drive teeth to the crank gear even if the circlip was missing on the right inner side bearing. Now if the outer right bearing clip came out or was missing it could migrate the entire C/B'er assy. like you say, but to the right until the gear hits the back of the clutch or the bearing came out of the bore then chaos would ensue, although it would still be engaged with the crank gear until the bearing popped out of the case. All this is just speculation but based on the intact straight appearing current install of the C/B'er and the even wear in the two machined trenches by the rod bolts it looks like it was running true in the bores on it's bearings and parallel to the Crank. Somehow the two items got out of time with each other long enough for the machining to occur then finally resulted in sudden stopping the engine when the rod bolt sheared and the con rod cap hit the balancer. The dealer needs to come clean on the root problem & tell M.M. or that engine needs to be inspected by an independent 3rd party Revo shop guy to give M.Mike the ammo he needs to fight the H-D mothership warranty dept. As stated before something really stinks here.
 

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Ron I thought what you mentioned was the Ah Ha moment - so I went & looked at my 1250 cases and counter balancer ( which I removed before ) but the ALT side circlip is on the inside and the bearing is unable to move outboard due to it bottoms in a stepped bore hole in the case and the shaft has a larger radius just inboard of the bearing race which has a land that rides / contains the needle bearings and prevents movement toward the ALT side - Unless the needles somehow got out of there it's not moving to the left, and disengaging the drive teeth to the crank gear even if the circlip was missing on the right inner side bearing. Now if the outer right bearing clip came out or was missing it could migrate the entire C/B'er assy. like you say, but to the right until the gear hits the back of the clutch or the bearing came out of the bore then chaos would ensue, although it would still be engaged with the crank gear until the bearing popped out of the case. All this is just speculation but based on the intact straight appearing current install of the C/B'er and the even wear in the two machined trenches by the rod bolts it looks like it was running true in the bores on it's bearings and parallel to the Crank. Somehow the two items got out of time with each other long enough for the machining to occur then finally resulted in sudden stopping the engine when the rod bolt sheared and the con rod cap hit the balancer. The dealer needs to come clean on the root problem & tell M.M. or that engine needs to be inspected by an independent 3rd party Revo shop guy to give M.Mike the ammo he needs to fight the H-D mothership warranty dept. As stated before something really stinks here.
Agree. I checked the bearings and clips. No way for it to move that much. What caught my eye was that one notch in the cb is much wider the head of the rod bolt would make. To me it looked like it was moving laterally to be that wide of a cut. Guessing is fun. Your turn.
Ron
 

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Ron - yea that's hard to say if the C/B'er was moving side to side according to my Bic pen cap :LOL: they both look the same width - it's just the upper groove is not as well defined, it may be the lighting or the way the rod bolt hex's wore into the C/B'er as it looks like 3 hex sides were wearing and grinding metal off - the deeper it wore into it the more the side hex's wore into it creating the 3 angles, bottom of the groove & two angled sides.There is what looks like a metal ridge on the case at the top of the C/B'er shaft where it enters the bearing so that's a lateral movement question - is it metal, oil or lighting ? Motor Mike any reports back from the field on H-D warranty or a root problem update for we bored to tears Revo gear heads here ? :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter #87
H-D says no on the warranty. They are being a bunch of assholes. Even the dealer warranty guy was screaming at them. Their reasons are; no extended warranty, I did the 1k service myself and the bike was dropped. I have receipts for the oil and filter. The dealer also told them there was no damage to the engine when I laid it down, they did the estimate and repairs. Personally I think H-D is in such dire straights financially they are not doing any goodwill gestures.

The dealer will give me 10% off a new motor. But he is not sure he can even get one since they were not manufactured by H-D.

So here are my choices as I see them: If anyone has any other ideas let me know.

1. Pay the $8k for a new motor which includes installation.
2. Find a used motor for around $2k and install myself.
3. Part out the bike.

I am fortunate enough that I can afford to do whatever I want but why be stupid about it.

I do know this is my last H-D. My brother-in-law is trying to sell me his Indian.
 

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2015 - 2017 P/N 19974-15K, -16K, -17K Polished/Platinum Muscle Engine $ 7209.34 Internet price St. Charles H-D. I agree about H-D in dire straights - big question does the new engine come with a warranty ? You could put an engine out of a crashed bike in there but there's no guarantee it will last - what happens if it fails right after install ( worse case scenario ) you start all over again ? Doesn't sound like fun. With a new engine you could keep the bike or sell it with an engine warranty intact - push the discount with the dealer and push them on what the root failure was, we gotta know - Also lots of usable parts on that failed engine you could sell so don't let them keep it - at least they went to bat with the H-D mother ship for you on warranty but they owe you a new engine discount.
 

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Mike
Well, since it's the last year of the V-rod, I'd probably buy a new engine. It is a lot of money but considering that it is a 2017 and having a new engine it will be easier to get the bike sold in the future. You will hardly get a good price for a 2017 with an older engine .. Any sale of the original 1250 would probably bring some pocket change in ..
Me? I would bite the bullet and not looking back.
 

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Discussion Starter #90
2015 - 2017 P/N 19974-15K, -16K, -17K Polished/Platinum Muscle Engine $ 7209.34 Internet price St. Charles H-D. I agree about H-D in dire straights - big question does the new engine come with a warranty ? You could put an engine out of a crashed bike in there but there's no guarantee it will last - what happens if it fails right after install ( worse case scenario ) you start all over again ? Doesn't sound like fun. With a new engine you could keep the bike or sell it with an engine warranty intact - push the discount with the dealer and push them on what the root failure was, we gotta know - Also lots of usable parts on that failed engine you could sell so don't let them keep it - at least they went to bat with the H-D mother ship for you on warranty but they owe you a new engine discount.
1 year warranty
Mike
Well, since it's the last year of the V-rod, I'd probably buy a new engine. It is a lot of money but considering that it is a 2017 and having a new engine it will be easier to get the bike sold in the future. You will hardly get a good price for a 2017 with an older engine .. Any sale of the original 1250 would probably bring some pocket change in ..
Me? I would bite the bullet and not looking back.
I'm leaning that way.
 

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Give Scott at Fitzgerald a call. I bet he has some options (may be able to repair...may have another block....etc).

Dropping that kind of cash on a stock long block for a white elephant bike (sorry, our bikes are not popular in the real world) is not wise. I'd at least run this past Scott (or Vreelands if they are interested). Might spend a whole lot less to get a whole lot more.

Otherwise.....if it were ME? I'd tear it down myself and go to work. Unless the block is cracked or the cylinder(s) are trashed....fun time!
 

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Give Scott at Fitzgerald a call. I bet he has some options (may be able to repair...may have another block....etc).

Dropping that kind of cash on a stock long block for a white elephant bike (sorry, our bikes are not popular in the real world) is not wise. I'd at least run this past Scott (or Vreelands if they are interested). Might spend a whole lot less to get a whole lot more.

Otherwise.....if it were ME? I'd tear it down myself and go to work. Unless the block is cracked or the cylinder(s) are trashed....fun time!
(y)
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Was at the dealer today looking at the motor. As the previous pictures showed a connecting rod bolt sheared off. That caused a chain of events locking up the engine. New engine is in transit. It is stamped with the same vin#. Hopefully will have the bike back next week. I will get the old motor back and see what is salvageable. H-D will keep part of the case with the number stamped on it Can’t have two engines withe the same #.
 

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Sounds good Motor Mike see if they'll just grind off the VIN # and give you the whole thing as I think they don't want you to know what happened to it. Yes the rod bolt sheared but that was after the counter balancer got out of proper timing with the crank, as evidenced by the wear trenches in the balancer. Why did that occur is the question. Only way to find out is to look behind the clutch and see if the C/B'er drive gear bolt is still there and if it and the gear are tight. If not that is the root problem and/or the C/B was never timed right at the factory. There's lots of race engines out there with no VIN# on the case.
 

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Sounds good Motor Mike see if they'll just grind off the VIN # and give you the whole thing as I think they don't want you to know what happened to it . TSK TSK TSK. I guess its that hard.
 

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Big H-D joke two engines with the same VIN # big deal - first off in order for it to be an issue someone would have to rebuild that failed engine using the same case ( Doubtful big time ) then it would have to be put in a good VIN # Chassis then at a DMV someone would have to notice that the engine didn't belong in that frame ( Never Happen because they seldom IF EVER, almost never - bend over, clean the case and check that ). If I'm not mistaken the 10 digit motor # doesn't even match the 17 digit M/C VIN # anyway, only the last 4 digits so good luck finding an average DMV person that knows that. That's why folks sell used M/C engines all the time - NOBODY CARES. I get it - the MFG. can't legally knowingly create two VIN #'s on anything. So have H-D grind the VIN # off and hand you the failed engine - they probably won't do that but it's still Motor Mikes property. Took longer to write this than grinding off the VIN #. Like my coffee cup says " It's all B/S " Clearly they are hiding what happened to that engine. Personally, I would insist I was given my failed engine and all it's parts back, and I would investigate it. Not just for myself but for others safety. Look at what happened to Cave Man 450 at 45 Mph. I've gone right at 3 times that fast on my R Model. I'm riding with my hand covering the clutch till we figure out why these engines are locking up.
 

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Big H-D joke two engines with the same VIN # big deal - first off in order for it to be an issue someone would have to rebuild that failed engine using the same case ( Doubtful big time ) then it would have to be put in a good VIN # Chassis then at a DMV someone would have to notice that the engine didn't belong in that frame ( Never Happen because they seldom IF EVER, almost never - bend over, clean the case and check that ). If I'm not mistaken the 10 digit motor # doesn't even match the 17 digit M/C VIN # anyway, only the last 4 digits so good luck finding an average DMV person that knows that. That's why folks sell used M/C engines all the time - NOBODY CARES. I get it - the MFG. can't legally knowingly create two VIN #'s on anything. So have H-D grind the VIN # off and hand you the failed engine - they probably won't do that but it's still Motor Mikes property. Took longer to write this than grinding off the VIN #. Like my coffee cup says " It's all B/S " Clearly they are hiding what happened to that engine. Personally, I would insist I was given my failed engine and all it's parts back, and I would investigate it. Not just for myself but for others safety. Look at what happened to Cave Man 450 at 45 Mph. I've gone right at 3 times that fast on my R Model. I'm riding with my hand covering the clutch till we figure out why these engines are locking up.
(y)
 
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