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After a couple run -ins with insurance Co's - and then getting picked for Jury Duty on a major case where a Woman had to sue her own insurance company for uninsured coverage she paid for for years then got T-Boned at 6:45 am by a drunk driver on her way to work that broke her neck & back and the insurance co. was acting like she set the whole accident up ( she of course didn't ) I don't doubt anything too low for these snakes to slither at, every company that reports to shareholders that's in it to maximize profits. Don't ever take a company public, you can kiss your control good bye along with your intended goals. That's what happened to H-D like KRR says it's all about the sales, and like rbabos says - if it wasn't for my V Rod I'd a dumped H-D long ago - SAD but TRUE.
 

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I am trying to understand why the heads would be damaged. Clearly from the pics although the rod bolt sheared you can see the rod did not disconnect so there should not have been any reason for valve contact. Only reason I can see is if the cam bearings are damaged due to lack of lube but you wouldn't tbink it would have run lo g enough for that to happen, even so that is repairable. There is something about this that stinks. If I was you I would be getting that motor from there and getting someone knowledgable and well versed with V Rods to inspect it and give a report. Seems to me there is stuff being hidden or not seen, the pieces of the puzzle don' quite fit.
As I said previously, I don't know US law but in the UK they have something called the "sale of goods act" and that states that when you purchase something you have the right to expect your purchase to be fit for purpose for a reasonable life. They even have a guideline as to the average lifespan of different things. This is enforcable to the point that even if the manf. doesn't pay the retailer can be held responsible.
I know HD have a terrible reputation for owning up to their problems and honouring warranties etc. Is this because your legal system doesn't give sufficient protection or what? I was always under the impression that "claim culture" started in the US.
 

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Likely the cheapest method of repair is pick up a parted out 1250 engine. Plenty of 1130 out there but the 1250 are a bit more scarce. As for the heads, other then pounding a valve into them or run without oil and damaging the cam bores, not much else. Cam bores can be redone but all up costs, it still might be cheaper to swap the engine out. Only a full teardown and cost breakdown will tell.

Ron
 

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I agree with coastrider there's something about this that stinks - if MM bought the bike last year in 2019 with 200 miles on it and now it's only got 2000 miles the obvious fact is that no one rode this bike long enough during the warranty period to allow this failure to occur ! Maybe that's why the dealer tried to get the H-D Mothership to consider warranty coverage. I'm thinking the sudden stop was so violent that the crank may have bounced back & reversed rotation just enough for the still moving valve train to contact the pistons. So MotorMike what is the only veil H-D is hiding behind to deny you warranty coverage on this - have they told you the reason ? Was this bike bought directly from the dealer that's inspecting it ? Is there any record of a previous repair or evaluation of a prior customer complaint by H-D in their computer records ? Just trying to get to the bottom of this - Thx.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
The vail they are hiding behind is that I laid the bike down last year. The dealer that has it now is the one who inspected it when I laid it down. Only cosmetic damage. Havent decided on my next course of action.
 

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That is BS. If that was the case, they should've told you that there would be no warranty waaaaaaaaaaay before they started tearing it down. I totally get not warrantying a turboed, SC, N20. But they would tell you right up front. This does smell a little odd.
 

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That is BS. If that was the case, they should've told you that there would be no warranty waaaaaaaaaaay before they started tearing it down. I totally get not warrantying a turboed, SC, N20. But they would tell you right up front. This does smell a little odd.
Totaly agree. Need to take legal advice.
 

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Yea, they're aware that whatever went wrong with it could not have been your fault, even if you laid the bike down - how could that get the crank, valves & counterbalancer out of time with each other and then run for what hundreds or over a thousand additional miles ? Don't see it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the engine shuts off when the bike goes horizontal - dead man angle switch anyway. You need to know exactly the cause of the failure, contact the H-D Mothership by email and voice your case with all the details including the low use mileage during the covered warranty period, low mileage now, etc. and the fact that you could have been severely injured or killed by an engine seizure and also the fact you've owned 19 H-D's and are one of their remaining long time loyal customers and throw it in their laps. Ask for a special warranty assessment for your individual case by someone further up the ladder than who's already denied it. Who knows they may have given the dealer a partial warranty credit on it but they don't want to repair that engine ( wise ) or they just want to sell you another new engine ( and besides will it be safe if this was a late Revo production line defect ? ) and the dealer may want to pocket the warranty money, as times are terrible for them right now. Who knows - Keep them all honest and push it to the limit you deserve it. Let them give you info you may give to a Lawyer later if they don't cover it, but keep the Lawyer card in your pocket. Good Luck & please let us know what the cause was and how they treated you - (y) :censored:
 

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Discussion Starter #69
I’m not the type to lawyer up but I did talk to my lawyer. He said HD threw the dealer under the bus when they mentioned laying the bike down was part of the reason. It’s the same dealer that evaluated the bike after I laid it down and provided the estimate to repair it (with no engine damage).
 

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Sorry to read from your loss MotroMike.

Have not read whole thread carefully but my guess is that engine might have suffered from oil starvation. When the oil pressure drops it can ruin engine from top to bottom. Especially when the main bearings run out of oil and there is metal to metal touch it can start an avalanche where the crank starts to beat up CB gear and when it is broken rest is history. My bet is that when or if the engine is opened main bearings are gone. No oil warning lights in the past?

Of course this is purely guessing but I have seen that kind of damage with my own eyes.
 

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Sorry to read from your loss MotroMike.

Have not read whole thread carefully but my guess is that engine might have suffered from oil starvation. When the oil pressure drops it can ruin engine from top to bottom. Especially when the main bearings run out of oil and there is metal to metal touch it can start an avalanche where the crank starts to beat up CB gear and when it is broken rest is history. My bet is that when or if the engine is opened main bearings are gone. No oil warning lights in the past?

Of course this is purely guessing but I have seen that kind of damage with my own eyes.
A broken gear drive on the cb could cause the crash but lack of oil would take forever to effect the gears themselves for a failure..
Ron
 

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Most likely but it cannot been seen yet how the gear is attached to CB shaft. Is it loose, broken or bent. If so what is the root cause? Vibrating crank in the worn main bearings perhaps. I just wonder why head bearing journals are also little worn. How these failure events are connected together.
 

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Somehow the timing between the C/B gear and the crankshaft gear was at installation or became incorrect during operation - based on wear marks the rod bolts & C/B were hitting long enough to machine two trenches in the C/B and resulted in it getting farther out of time where the rod bolt hit on the side of the balancer cheek and sheared it off, you can see it in the photo. There is no way from what I can see for those two gears to get out of time unless the single bolt comes out of the C/B gear or the multiple bolts come out of the crank gear. Once out of time if it suddenly stops and kicks backwards in rotation it can result in the valve to piston contact. Even if it spun a main bearing ( remember these are plain not roller bearings ) it may not necessarily cause the gears to skip teeth from crank to C/B to cause contact. It's still a bit of a mystery in what was the root cause. Triple Sprocket bolt could get loose and throw cam timing off bending valves but I don't know how that results in Crank & C/B machining each other that looks like it took time to occur - Hopefully MM will find out more. This is an interesting failure for sure.
 

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Skipping whole teeth does not sound very possible but serrated connection between thin gear and C/B shaft might become loose sounds more plausible. Do not believe one or more teeth error in CB timing. I think it would have been noticed very quickly from abnormal vibrations during the first miles.
 

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Mukle yea most plausible is the possibility of the C/B gear retaining bolt backing out and allowing the C/B gear to get loose - it has a master key on the shaft though so if it continued to drive the C/B it would be a hit or miss thing - gear jumping around in there bouncing off the back of the clutch - I cant imagine that going on long enough to machine two trenches in the cheeks of the C/B though, so it leads me to believe it was improperly timed ( easy to do ) from new. It will run fine with the C/B off a tooth or two and if your other 18 H-D's are non Revo engine bikes like MM's you'll never complain about the extra vibration as it's still 80% less than an air head.And yea, a broken Crank would do it KRR for sure but I doubt that since the C/B looks like it's been machined for a while, and that may not have happened in one sudden event like a crank snapping on the drive end and no longer driving the C/B'er. Never heard of a crank snapping on a N/A bike either. Hope we find out - I'm still leaning towards end of the production line human error in assemby -
 

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If CB timing is missed in the assembly I think it would have hit the conrod from the very beginning.

A couple of months ago I assembled 1250cc with 1/4 stroker crank and K1 conrods. There gap between conrod bolt and CB is very narrow. In the stroker it is less compared to stock of course.

If there is nothing wrong with the main bearings and CB gear and shaft connection is ok I'm starting to think that conrod bolt has been backed out a little by little.

After putting reading glasses on cam bearing journal does not look that bad. Maybe my conclusion from the oil problem was not correct.

Interesting case indeed even it is sad.
 

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Yes, rod bolts backing out would do it but if you look the intact rod bolt looks seated, and damaged on one side only indicating no spinning, but it still hit the C/B'er enough to machine a trench in it. Whatever happened it got worse as the final hit looks, as I said before, on the rt side of the C/B'er cheek - it's the one that bent the con rod cap hole ( on the side of the sheared off head rod bolt ) - you'd think all that crashing of parts together would have made a hell of a racket but that's as deep in the engine as you can get so maybe not -
 

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A typical crank break would happen at the rod journal, not at the outer ends.
Ron
I have seen the big end break and engine still runs. The crank would break but would not come apart. Because its mounting would not allow it to seperate.As far as the bolts backing out. High unlikely both rod bolts did that. But anything's possible.
 
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