[coastrider]

Agree. Possible that the cb bolt backed out and tooth engagement was lost. Shaft to sprocket is splined with a master spline so no way to mistime that. Possible on the teeth, I guess but there would be a problem right away with either hitting or extra vibes. One thing I think we can all agree on is the CB timing is the issue. Reason, other then the bolt backing out, not sure.
Ron

Only other thing that might cause it to move out of mesh is if the CB outer bearing retaining clip either came out or was missing allowing the whole shaft to slowly creep out, but I tend to think that the bolt is probably more likely especially with known historic bolt problems (triple sprocket bolt)

 

[streetrodracer]

That's one reason why the total mileage interests me - a 2017 V Rod can't have very much on it. The counter balancer bolt tq is 37 ft/lb AND 90 degrees ( hopefully they remembered the 90 degrees at the engine factory ) If the timing of the C/B gear was incorrect from the factory it may have vibrated more than normal but if it's a new to you bike it might not be noticed as out of the norm - possibly this could have eventually broke the gear retaining bolt ( or it just backed out from improper tq ) and that really let it get out of time where it started hitting the rod bolts with the balancer counterweight. If you figure an average engine speed of 4000 rpm ( and I believe the balancer runs at that same rpm based on the gear diameter but in the opposite direction ) it wouldn't take long in time to machine a couple tracks and eventually devolve down into a sudden stop - if the gear fell off the splines completely the balancer could also have been rotated by the rod bolts hitting it as well, totally kicked around & uncontrolled. Hard to say exactly what happened first, hopefully Motor Mike will chime in and maybe have a couple more photos for us. Or maybe he's gone to the dark side and H-D has had him sign a NDA - his silence in exchange for a new engine and now he'll never report back - and we'll be waiting for sudden stoppage at 130 Mph. BTW what's your opinion - will a slipper clutch totally disengage during a high speed ride with a sudden engine seizure and remain disengaged until the bike finally stops at 0 Mph ? ( No rear wheel skidding - ) Thanks -

 

[MotorMike]

There was no abnormal sound or vibration before it happened. I might not know a lot about V-Rods but this is my 19th HD. Yes I was lucky, 90 of the 100 miles I rode that day where at 70mph+. Very low mileage bike 2k, I bought it last year with 200 miles on it. No NDA for me! The dealer might have to take more pictures for HD in which case he sends them to me and I will post.

 

[streetrodracer]

Awesome MotorMike ! What exhaust do you have on that Muscle - stock ? Amazing your 19th H-D holy crap Batman ! Sorry about your first bad experience with a V Rod they're great bikes & this failure is not normal. Man you'd think that would be a racket with those items hitting each other but there is an oil bath going on - I do know some guys remove the C/Balancer for drag racing but I don't know how much more it vibrates. Did the shop remove the clutch and inspect the C/B drive gear yet ? That will be interesting. Hopefully someone here knows if that slipper clutch will totally disengage if the engine locks up. Did it slip for you, or did you have the clutch lever pulled when it died or did the tire skid ? Thx.

 

[rbabos]

That's one reason why the total mileage interests me - a 2017 V Rod can't have very much on it. The counter balancer bolt tq is 37 ft/lb AND 90 degrees ( hopefully they remembered the 90 degrees at the engine factory ) If the timing of the C/B gear was incorrect from the factory it may have vibrated more than normal but if it's a new to you bike it might not be noticed as out of the norm - possibly this could have eventually broke the gear retaining bolt ( or it just backed out from improper tq ) and that really let it get out of time where it started hitting the rod bolts with the balancer counterweight. If you figure an average engine speed of 4000 rpm ( and I believe the balancer runs at that same rpm based on the gear diameter but in the opposite direction ) it wouldn't take long in time to machine a couple tracks and eventually devolve down into a sudden stop - if the gear fell off the splines completely the balancer could also have been rotated by the rod bolts hitting it as well, totally kicked around & uncontrolled. Hard to say exactly what happened first, hopefully Motor Mike will chime in and maybe have a couple more photos for us. Or maybe he's gone to the dark side and H-D has had him sign a NDA - his silence in exchange for a new engine and now he'll never report back - and we'll be waiting for sudden stoppage at 130 Mph. BTW what's your opinion - will a slipper clutch totally disengage during a high speed ride with a sudden engine seizure and remain disengaged until the bike finally stops at 0 Mph ? ( No rear wheel skidding - ) Thanks -

All I know is it will remain engaged enough at 30mph to restart a stalled engine. Not a hard lock up though and doubt you'd get a tire lock up.
Ron

 

[knight rod rob]

The dealer should have disassembled the engine more. Makes u wonder if they are familiar with the engine. Looks like they just pulled pan and cam covers.Because cause of failure is still unknown. Unless thats Harleys procedure. I know sell him a street rod. 😆

 

[Moler]

Hopefully someone here knows if that slipper clutch will totally disengage if the engine locks up. Did it slip for you, or did you have the clutch lever pulled when it died or did the tire skid ? Thx.

That was my first thought when I read about the motor locking up. I can't imagine doing 70ish and this happening. Don't think I could react fast enough to pull in the clutch before things headed south. You never know, but maybe the slipper would actually slip enough to save you. I'm very interested in how this turns out.

 

[MotorMike]

Stock exhaust. 2k miles
When the engine locked up I was maybe going 30mph making a turn. Pulled the clutch in immediately. Have ridden bikes long enough that that was my natural reaction.
Dealer is only tearing the engine down enough for HD to make a determination on how much they will cover. If we need more they will do it.
Will keep everyone updated. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Ceigenberger]

More than likely that is indeed the recommendation from HD. If it will end up being a warranty issue, they will simply replace the engine. No in house rebuilding will happen. HD has an engine exchange program for this reason. I had an issue happen with a buell back in the day- our of warranty- they would sell me a complete engine but would not guarantee that I wouldn’t Just get a sportster motor. So it was built by a local expert instead.

 

[MotorMike]

Interesting you mentioned that. When I was debating (arguing) with the dealer they eluded to the same thing.

 

[Ceigenberger]

More than likely that is what will happen, it’s just a matter of who is paying for it. And other than not having the original engine (numbers matching kind of thing) it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[MotorMike]

Got word today that HD will not cover any of it! Can’t even begin to say how pissed off I am. The dealer is working up an estimates for a rebuild and another for a new motor. Since I will get a veteran’s discount it may be cheaper for a new motor. Guess this is my last HD.

 

[Moler]

Well that blows. Not sure what to tell you or where to go from here. Hopefully someone will chime in with some alternative route to take on this.. Al the best..

 

[coastrider]

Got word today that HD will not cover any of it! Can’t even begin to say how pissed off I am. The dealer is working up an estimates for a rebuild and another for a new motor. Since I will get a veteran’s discount it may be cheaper for a new motor. Guess this is my last HD.

Well that sucks big time!!
What reason have they given for not playing ball? I can't see how they can get away with that on a 2k bike. Dont know a lot about US law but in the UK that would not wash. Not only do things have a warranty, they also have a " reasonable expected life" . This applies to anything be it a washing machine, kettle or whatever. I think I would be contacting a lawyer and telling HD that you are going to contact every motorcycle magazine and paper with the story. They would have to have a pretty solid "get out" reason to not honour this and if they have not given you this reason then you need to push them to give it. And get it in writing!
Really sorry to hear this!

 

[rbabos]

Well that sucks big time!!
What reason have they given for not playing ball? I can't see how they can get away with that on a 2k bike. Dont know a lot about US law but in the UK that would not wash. Not only do things have a warranty, they also have a " reasonable expected life" . This applies to anything be it a washing machine, kettle or whatever. I think I would be contacting a lawyer and telling HD that you are going to contact every motorcycle magazine and paper with the story. They would have to have a pretty solid "get out" reason to not honour this and if they have not given you this reason then you need to push them to give it. And get it in writing!
Really sorry to hear this!

Hell, it's hard enough to get them to warranty a bike in the warranty period let alone one that's out of it. Personally I hate the company. Bunch of crooks, although I have a personal reason for my hate on. If it wasn't for my v rod, I'd have dumped HD long ago.
Ron

 

[streetrodracer]

I remember in the early 80's the H-D trick was they had one of the H-D " daughters or granddaughters " call you and drop their name and talk you down from your pissed off soapbox then lull you into some half A$$ solution that you accepted while star struck with their B/S name of the H-D family member that called you. That's for real, No Shat Joe.

1) Did they divulge what's actually the cause of the failure ? -

2) What is the reason for no coverage after they looked into possibly covering it ? -

3) They are just seeing how much fight you got in you AND how much money you got - if they know you were driving around in a convertible talking to him they're already counting their money.

4) Time to fight back big time unless you really want to pay - that's what they're counting on plus start of riding season.

5) Remind them engine seizures kill people, and they're lucky you're not one of them.

6) The rest of us are waiting for their answers wondering if we're riding death traps.

 

[knight rod rob]

Sad to say once its out of warranty thats it, legally. They are not bound by law. I would not let them fix it, if it were me. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper. I still would like to know how bad it is. If the heads are damaged then its gonna cost. And it not just Harley when it comes to warranty.

 

[MotorMike]

Yes heads are damaged. I too am done with HD. I supported and defended them for many years, no more. Yes it was out of warranty but they need good will. Their sales and market share are tanking and it’s shit like this thats killing them. Typical short term thinking, the American way. After I finish this next drink I’ll really say what’s on my mind.

 

[streetrodracer]

So lets get this straight - heads are damaged so basically the entire engine is friggin' absolute total trash but the original cause is not divulged ? Really ? That's B/S - they have to say something like " Well we looked into covering it with the H-D mothership but it looks like you over revved it so no, it's not our fault, none of our installed bolts came loose, you did it riding it sorry " I mean if you're out of warranty you're out - any smart dealer wouldn't even try to get it for you, or take photos so they must have thought that this was an odd failure and possibly covered but H-D kicked it back - waiting for you to return your next move kick to their groin. This is how it works in Corporate America - DENY, DELAY until it's proved you must pay - it's all Lawyer B/S legal games designed to minimize losses and maximize profits. They know it's their fault - the Lawyers just look at the next move on their Logic chart and it says " Deny any Wrongdoing NO WARRANTY " then the balls in your court. SO- How much outta warranty was it in calendar & mileage ?

 

[knight rod rob]

U right I just did not want to say it( the American way) and its getting worse. They crap after the sale. All the promises go out the window. Its all about sales I was told long ago. You say the heads are crap, like what? Bent valve, damaged valve seat what?