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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok… so recently I purchased an adaptor cable to plug into the diagnostic connector on my 06 R that will connect to a global obd2 scan tool. So here’s the question- knowing that these bikes communicate on the J1850 protocol, will I be able to get data using a global (automotive) scan tool? Anyone ever try this? I’m just curious, as I haven’t had the opportunity to try yet. The adaptor cable was less than $5 so I figured I’d try.
Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, that’s my thoughts too. And I have plenty of scan tools, and since they also speak J1850… it would be cool to get live data… and as I recall, Kent Moore made the Scanalyzer… now it’s Bosch…
 

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Sure doesn't. Harley has a bad habit of deviating from standards when it comes to their ECUs. Even simple pids aren't what they "should be" in Harley land.

I have extensive J1850 and CAN bus network experience with Harley. It's wild west in there (some is documented, most isn't unfortunately).

Honestly with the fantastic aftermarket support for the Delphi ECU's we have already I would recommend investing in a Powervision and using that to scan/log/change calibration values. Fantastic device for what I consider a bargain.
 

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I've got absolutely no idea, but being a Delphi ( automotive roots ) system it just might work !
If you are bored, our ECU is based on the MT05 unit from Delphi. It's popular with lots of crappy scooters in China and occasionally a boat. Can't make this stuff up. In case you are really curious there are some very creative folks overseas that have documented the out of the box MT05 unit and one person even wrote a homebrew scan tool (spoiler alert: It doesn't work with our version of the ECU, however I do know how to make it so if the developer would give me source code access to his scanner....maybe one day if I cared enough).
 

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Yes the cheap cables work. I'm using a Veepeak mini wifi OBD2 scanner and rpmitup software for iphone it display RPM, water temperature and OBD trouble codes.

It should also show MPH, horse power and gear, it has the capability to show corrected speed if you have changed sprockets on your phone display. I have to verify with a road test.

It does not show live data for IAT or MAP sensor like I wanted. But the app is only $13.

Please let us know what work's live data is also my goal but I am not there yet for my V rod.
 

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Sure doesn't. Harley has a bad habit of deviating from standards when it comes to their ECUs. Even simple pids aren't what they "should be" in Harley land.

I have extensive J1850 and CAN bus network experience with Harley. It's wild west in there (some is documented, most isn't unfortunately).
Interesting topic. Have you Freudie tried to do any queries to ECU with terminal? Believe that normal pid's like vss, rpm etc are questionable and are not manufacturer proprietary.

If I remember right I have one J1850-vpw interface somewhere and could do some experiments little later when I have better time.
 

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Honestly with the fantastic aftermarket support for the Delphi ECU's we have already I would recommend investing in a Powervision and using that to scan/log/change calibration values. Fantastic device for what I consider a bargain.
Probably best advice out there - so why fight success ? It sounds like a rabbit hole of bullshit and time to try to create our own lower cost ECU info access system. Need real true computer Nerds for this to succeed, so maybe what we get out of a PV system ( from their computer Nerds ) is the practical limitation for our Delphi bikes ? There's always DTT it's got a lot of information and tuneability but no Ion knock detection like Delphi so a tradeoff that might not be worth it I guess ? -
 

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I think that this is more like learning process than trying to do cheap replacement for the PV. And if you can do it hard way why wouldn't you :ROFLMAO: This is best part of the hobby to test things up.

I am not familiar with the PV but I doubt it that it cannot do all the features you might want for the build bikes. Let say if you want upgraded launch control which is active only when the bike is stationary and when you get going it will be disabled. Only option is make it your self. DTT has LC but it is not very practical while it is enabled all the time. This was just one example but get the point why obd information can be useful.

Of course for the regular Joe with stock bike PV is more than elegant system but there is many of us who builds hipo bikes etc. At least want to build. Let the all flowers grow like we power addict hippies say.
 

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Many Snap On Scanners will work as long as they have update 17.2 or later. They work with J1850 and J2534 protocols.. The Solus Legend is made specifically for Bikes. But the Solus Edge, Ultra, Modis, Verus and others will work as well. They will read and clear codes. Read live data. And have Bidirectional controls. All the way back to 2000, depending on the bike. You will have to buy the adapters. They are pricey. $300+. The scanners I've mentioned are all very expensive. Not exactly for a DIY'er. I recently got the cable for my Solus Edge & Modis. But haven't tried using it yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Many Snap On Scanners will work as long as they have update 17.2 or later. They work with J1850 and J2534 protocols.. The Solus Legend is made specifically for Bikes. But the Solus Edge, Ultra, Modis, Verus and others will work as well. They will read and clear codes. Read live data. And have Bidirectional controls. All the way back to 2000, depending on the bike. You will have to buy the adapters. They are pricey. $300+. The scanners I've mentioned are all very expensive. Not exactly for a DIY'er. I recently got the cable for my Solus Edge & Modis. But haven't tried using it yet.
This is exactly what I want to try. I have access to a verus, as well as an OTC an an Autel. Really, I’m curious more than anything. But wouldn’t data be nice from a diagnostic perspective?
 

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Many years ago there were phone/tablet application called Portable Dashboard which used cheap Chinese ELM327 BlueTooth (J1850) adapter. I played some time with it and it was connected to my other bike where is Delphi ECU. It was very slow and unreliable possibly due to poor BT implementation and that cheap adapter. However it worked somehow which confirms that something can be read from obd with third party devices. If lucky I might have still Android APK for this if needed. I think that original program writer stopped developing this software. With a little search there could be older topics from this.

Organism Font Line Electronic device Display device
 

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Many years ago there were phone/tablet application called Portable Dashboard which used cheap Chinese ELM327 BlueTooth (J1850) adapter. I played some time with it and it was connected to my other bike where is Delphi ECU. It was very slow and unreliable possibly due to poor BT implementation and that cheap adapter. However it worked somehow which confirms that something can be read from obd with third party devices. If lucky I might have still Android APK for this if needed. I think that original program writer stopped developing this software. With a little search there could be older topics from this.

View attachment 608939
Our bikes (all Vrods as HD never implemented CAN for any of the Vrods) are J1850 bus based. Indeed you CAN read data off the bus with everything from cheap (Chinese) interfaces to some of the higher end options (I built my own a few years ago for one of my projects).

The problem is when you go "off the beaten path" so to speak. SOME of the generic pids function as mentioned by one of the other posters in this thread, it's when you try to view data for sensors you actually care about (knock counts, timing, afr, trims, etc) that you need some luck finding or researching (read debugging). Despite the fact that the ECU is "just" an MT05 unit, HD clearly had some latitude with Delphi when adapting it to our bikes. I wrote an ABS flush app (that I still sell) for Harley's. It's a mess in there. I had to spend a good 6 months getting through the non standard BS to get everything sorted out.

I've been working on a digital dash project for these bikes. Lots of this IS documented....the "non standard" stuff + the hardware has me looking for vodka at times.
 

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Thank you guys for playing around and getting deep in with this electronic ECU interface stuff. Me I deal with airplane maintenance & repairs, schedules all week long - the last thing I want to do in my spare time is open up a huge can of electronic worms. I don't mind tuning and engine modification to a point but the bike has to be reliable and serve me with a nice ride on a regular basis to get away from aircraft electronic gremlins or I would just go crazy - so I try to keep it simple. Going on a ride now to air it all out, almost made it to Friday - (y):cool:
 

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Completely agree! My better half often tells me sometimes it's better to buy something pre-made than to homebrew it. My illness (read: must modify everything) conflicts with that thinking and often has symptoms such as 3 car garages full of multi-year projects.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It’s those projects that never get completed that become the “challenge “ to justify to the wife lol! But thanks for all your insight (everyone) I have no doubt that HD took liberties with the software… after all there is no real communication standards for bikes (in the US anyway) and didn’t go to CAN for cars until 2008… so it’s a crap shoot I suppose.
 

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Anything is doable for someone with enough devotion, time & money as we all know. The crux of it is the cost to benefit ratio - as I get older I know less of my time remains so it's time to get realistic, work smarter, not harder to ensure plenty of fun time before it's gone. If I can buy something premade that has a great reputation here on this forum to do what I need to do with the V Rod and it's a reasonable cost I'm getting it to cut to the chase. Now for you younger guys with plenty of life left that need to go out in the garage to get away from that other motorcycle, the wife's menstrual cycle ? :D Go for it !! I'm following eating popcorn ! (y):cool:
 

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The problem is when you go "off the beaten path" so to speak. SOME of the generic pids function as mentioned by one of the other posters in this thread, it's when you try to view data for sensors you actually care about (knock counts, timing, afr, trims, etc) that you need some luck finding or researching (read debugging). Despite the fact that the ECU is "just" an MT05 unit, HD clearly had some latitude with Delphi when adapting it to our bikes. I wrote an ABS flush app (that I still sell) for Harley's. It's a mess in there. I had to spend a good 6 months getting through the non standard BS to get everything sorted out.
Exactly. This is why many engine builders choose aftermarket ecu like DTT instead. Delphi is too closed and restrictive system for making deeper modifications for the very tuned or FI engine might require.
 

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Exactly. This is why many engine builders choose aftermarket ecu like DTT instead. Delphi is too closed and restrictive system for making deeper modifications for the very tuned or FI engine might require.
Unless talking boost, the Delphi is still the best option. Mind you, some are capable of scaling the cal to cover boost as one option. Not practical for most to do without a dyno. Otherwise, yes, DTT, Tmax ECM. To keep the Delphi for boost, then it's PCV and tps tune or pressure tune a cal or some real effort at scaling a 100kpa calibration.
Ron
 
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