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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone here used the Holymoto engine brace? looks like a pretty substantial piece. A little spendy maybe and probably overkill for what im building but it cant hurt anything to overbuild it ,right? I figured that combined with a billet oil pan like the ones from Fitzgerald or Trask the bottom end should be about as solid as it gets? Any issues with fitment or other problems with this brace?
 

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Don't know about the Holymoto brace but I bought the Trask it's US machined, boxed steel and weighs 2 Lb ! Super strong but it did need some dremel tooling to clearance an area around one of the main bolt bosses. Got it for $ 197 ( half price ) off e bay. Fitzgerald has a nice pan and his girdle is aluminum - probably a lot lighter but I don't know how strong compared to the steel - also you might want to pin your bearings as cheap insurance, he does that as well.
 

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Don't know about the Holymoto brace but I bought the Trask it's US machined, boxed steel and weighs 2 Lb ! Super strong but it did need some dremel tooling to clearance an area around one of the main bolt bosses. Got it for $ 197 ( half price ) off e bay. Fitzgerald has a nice pan and his girdle is aluminum - probably a lot lighter but I don't know how strong compared to the steel - also you might want to pin your bearings as cheap insurance, he does that as well.
given the alloy cases have a greater expansion rate to steel,you must wonder where the exta expansion is allowed.there must be creep between the two and i would think thats not a good thing in an area you want none.
 

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given the alloy cases have a greater expansion rate to steel,you must wonder where the exta expansion is allowed.there must be creep between the two and i would think thats not a good thing in an area you want none.
That and the engine is already too heavy.
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #5
what I like about the Holymoto brace is that it bolts to the mains AND the perimeter bolts of the oil pan, and in theory it seems that it should be much more ridged and stable than the standard braces... but id trade 100 pounds of theory for an ounce of reality any day!
 

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I also wish there was someone who could prove that any of these braces do ANYTHING at all. I know they are quite popular but out of all the threads I've read on here I haven't seen anything proven either way for sure. I'll keep tradition and run one and if no one has had any issues with the Holymoto one then I guess that's the one I will use.
 

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My Revo, she's fat & heavy - and needs a girdle.

Well I too pondered the steel vs aluminum expansion ratio, I'm not sure what the answer is but the steel cylinder liners are an example - the top of the stock liner is a light press fit in the case but the lower skirt is a loose fit with the O ring boss just about touching. So the theory is the liner gets hotter than the coolant cooled case area and the area around the skirt below and the liner grows to a snug fit ? I spoke to Ray Vreeland and he said the liners he specs for the 1320 are a tight interference fit at the top and .004 larger on the bottom for a snugger fit than the old Wiseco/Darton sleeve kit and they don't crack pistons or liners with the CP pistons. Having said that the differential temps of the surrounding case and the oil bathed engine brace would have to be considered to really know what the final differential of expansion between the two would be. The directions for the kit has you put red locktite on the case stud end, sequence tighten to 10-15 ft. lbs, install the brace/girdle, apply ARP Ultra Torque on the stud end, and beneath the nut where it contacts the brace. ( NOT between the brace and the stud boss faces ) then sequence torque to 10, 20, 35 and 43 Ft. Lbs. So theoretically yes, the brace and bosses could have some relative movement if the expansion rate is that different ( don't think so ) but 4 ARP studs locktited @ at 43 ft.lbs I doubt much and it won't get loose so in practice so should not be a problem. At 2 lbs I think the Trask girdle is a vibration damper/ pendulum weight as well and like the other brace/girdles may help to defoam the oil returning from the crank area to the sump. They work - ask the 200+ Hp guys. Roddy how does the HolyMoto brace tie into the oil sump/case bolts ? Do you have to use their sump that has reliefs machined into it ? Can't find a good view of their brace you got one ? :blahblah: :D
 

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Well I too pondered the steel vs aluminum expansion ratio, I'm not sure what the answer is but the steel cylinder liners are an example - the top of the stock liner is a light press fit in the case but the lower skirt is a loose fit with the O ring boss just about touching. So the theory is the liner gets hotter than the coolant cooled case area and the area around the skirt below and the liner grows to a snug fit ? I spoke to Ray Vreeland and he said the liners he specs for the 1320 are a tight interference fit at the top and .004 larger on the bottom for a snugger fit than the old Wiseco/Darton sleeve kit and they don't crack pistons or liners with the CP pistons. Having said that the differential temps of the surrounding case and the oil bathed engine brace would have to be considered to really know what the final differential of expansion between the two would be. The directions for the kit has you put red locktite on the case stud end, sequence tighten to 10-15 ft. lbs, install the brace/girdle, apply ARP Ultra Torque on the stud end, and beneath the nut where it contacts the brace. ( NOT between the brace and the stud boss faces ) then sequence torque to 10, 20, 35 and 43 Ft. Lbs. So theoretically yes, the brace and bosses could have some relative movement if the expansion rate is that different ( don't think so ) but 4 ARP studs locktited @ at 43 ft.lbs I doubt much and it won't get loose so in practice so should not be a problem. At 2 lbs I think the Trask girdle is a vibration damper/ pendulum weight as well and like the other brace/girdles may help to defoam the oil returning from the crank area to the sump. They work - ask the 200+ Hp guys. Roddy how does the HolyMoto brace tie into the oil sump/case bolts ? Do you have to use their sump that has reliefs machined into it ? Can't find a good view of their brace you got one ? :blahblah: :D
Not Roddy but here's the HM brace.
https://www.holy-moto.com/en/kurbelgehauseversteifung.html
Ron
 

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Revo girdles, $ 98.50 to $ 107.40 a pound. Step right up !

Ron yea I just found it on their website- it's under the "manufactures" heading, man that's (as usual) a piece of engineered artwork in metal - typical Holymoto ! It basically slips in between the main and oil pan cases I guess with a gasket on both sides ? It weighs 6 Lb. 9.6 Oz ! so it's the real super strong deal for S/C, Turbo, Stroker Big Bore High HP engines. Might be overkill for a Revo N/A build putting out 150 or less Rwhp, but some guys like to kill roaches with a sledgehammer. Roddy ? It's very heavy, costs like $ 525 plus $ 155 shipping + VAT tax $ 45 ? (if they don't exclude it for US shipping) so somewhere around $ 725 dollars delivered ? WOW ! Think I'll stick with my Trask girdle, only 2 Lbs for $ 197. Think I will buy their 2nd gear set though, has a unique semi helical gear cut ( not straight cut) they claim is good up to 250 Hp. about $ 407 plus $ 115 shipping, throw in the throttle shafts for $ 122, done. That airbox 5 axis machined aluminum scoup is INSANE !! like $ 1500 but ya gotta give it to those crazy geniuses, they deliver. :notworth: :blahblah: :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I may be wrong but I think VAT only applies to Europe? Also, I thought that it was like 367.00 euros and I googled the exchange rate and that came to around $417. Still pricy even with that high shipping rate though...
 

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You are correct Roddy I had my other HolyMoto goodie added to that brace looks like around $ 515 dollars delivered to the US. Without a doubt the gold standard in Revo engine case braces/girdles and VAT should not apply to US shipments (only to Euro zone countries) but I had a big back and forth "discussion" trying to get a new exhaust pipe out of a Triumph dealer in GB a few years ago and he would not remove the VAT tax charge so I told him to keep the pipe it would look really good stuck on his shelf. Anyway I don't think you will have that problem with HolyMoto, if VAT doesn't apply they won't charge it trying to make extra $ off us like some. H/M's got Great products, they are European M/C geniuses.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You are correct Roddy I had my other HolyMoto goodie added to that brace looks like around $ 515 dollars delivered to the US. Without a doubt the gold standard in Revo engine case braces/girdles and VAT should not apply to US shipments (only to Euro zone countries) but I had a big back and forth "discussion" trying to get a new exhaust pipe out of a Triumph dealer in GB a few years ago and he would not remove the VAT tax charge so I told him to keep the pipe it would look really good stuck on his shelf. Anyway I don't think you will have that problem with HolyMoto, if VAT doesn't apply they won't charge it trying to make extra $ off us like some. H/M's got Great products, they are European M/C geniuses.
looks like about twice what id pay for a standard brace from anyone here in the us... give or take. again, probably overkill for my build... but cant hurt anything, right? coupled with a billet pan should be pretty rock solid. (probably not reinstalling my balancer either)
 

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looks like about twice what id pay for a standard brace from anyone here in the us... give or take. again, probably overkill for my build... but cant hurt anything, right? coupled with a billet pan should be pretty rock solid. (probably not reinstalling my balancer either)
Think long and hard about that. Just about everyone short of race only in softails have put them back. Revo is not different. Very little gain to remove them but a constant source of vibration each and every time you ride that can get old after a while.
Ron
 

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With the HolyMoto super brace I think adding the billet oil pan to that is truly overkill, a wasted $ 500 unless it's going to be 250Hp+. Now a Trask or Fitzgerald 4 bolt brace/girdle with the billet pan makes perfect sense, good combo. Removing the balancer makes no sense. Take the $ 500 saved and put it into a better set of rods, a better 2nd gear set or towards a billet crank in lieu of a weld up, with pinned bearings IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
With the HolyMoto super brace I think adding the billet oil pan to that is truly overkill, a wasted $ 500 unless it's going to be 250Hp+. Now a Trask or Fitzgerald 4 bolt brace/girdle with the billet pan makes perfect sense, good combo. Removing the balancer makes no sense. Take the $ 500 saved and put it into a better set of rods, a better 2nd gear set or towards a billet crank in lieu of a weld up, with pinned bearings IMHO.
yeah, Im definitely doing rods, clutch basket, and complete R&D transmission anyway. Figured I might be on the lookout for a billet 3/8" crankshaft, otherwise not to worried about the weldup 1/4"er after looking around the forum and talking to Vreeland and Falicon. A billet crank would be nice but for N/A sounds like bigger overkill than a holymoto brace with billet oil pan to be honest.
 

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Put your $ where your stress is.

True for a 1/4 mile race bike. In the one hour of spirited street riding that I do you can make 360 ea. 10 second passes. That's probably 5 years of drag racing. A weld up might work just fine for that, but I want a 60K+ mile minimum street engine that can get it's neck rung on a regular basis @ 130 + Hp. A 1/4 stroker will add another 10-15+ Hp and 12+ Tq. and that must be reliable. I Don't trust a weld up for that. Unless you have an endless budget the way I look at it the $ should be put in the best possible place. A billet crank will help prevent a crank failure that will poke a hole thru whatever oil sump case & braces you have. Put the $ where it should be, and there will be no surprises. A $ 1900 billet crank - $ 500 overspent on a billet oil pan and $ 300 extra on a brace/girdle - $ 1000 on a weld up crank = $ 100 out of pocket for a true billet crank, a rock solid bottom end, just sayin'. :blahblah: :D
 

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Discussion Starter #18
First, where did you find a billet crank for $1900? Is that from Falicon? Also, I can get a billet pan for $345. (Its a Track pan) also a weld up crank from falcon is about $735 balanced to your piston/rod combination. Oh, and even if I don't spend $500 on a Holy Moto brace I'm still going to have to get a brace of some sort, right? And unless I find a super deal on one like you did, then it's going to be around $250.... So the math is off by closer to $1000. I hear what you are saying though and for $1900, if that includes balancing then I'd be pretty interested in one too.
 

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To brace or not to brace...?

How often do we see a Revolution engine with cracked cases?
Do the Destroyers run braces??
Better safe than sorry? Yes.
Running a stageII kit on the street a brace is overkill -in my opinion.
But then again the costs is liveable.
The story would be different when you double the hp/tq numbers.
Personally if I had to do my engine over again I would get the Holy Moto brace,
way bigger than my current Doherty (aka "sideways67, RIP) brace,
+ the HM brace really hugs around the lower engine case.
Include a billet oil pan makes this to a interesting combo.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
To brace or not to brace...?

How often do we see a Revolution engine with cracked cases?
Do the Destroyers run braces??
Better safe than sorry? Yes.
Running a stageII kit on the street a brace is overkill -in my opinion.
But then again the costs is liveable.
The story would be different when you double the hp/tq numbers.
Personally if I had to do my engine over again I would get the Holy Moto brace,
way bigger than my current Doherty (aka "sideways67, RIP) brace,
+ the HM brace really hugs around the lower engine case.
Include a billet oil pan makes this to a interesting combo.
From all the reading Ive done on this forum, and everyone that Ive talked to, Vreeland etc.. the issue has more to do with cases moving and flexing rather than cracking. and the build that im doing is primarily going to be for drag racing with an occasional short trips on the street. and the build I have planned is well beyond a stage II, im planning a 1/4" to 3/8" stroker with stg. III jones cams, ported heads, 58 mm throttle body, 14:1 compression etc running race fuel etc. not as hard on lower end as forced induction but still hard on parts.
 
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