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Discussion Starter #1
I can't believe that I haven't found this place sooner. And it's not like I wasn't looking. I am completely blown away by the level of support and quality of information on this site. You guys rock!! A Lot! My wallet is cowering in fearfrom the possibilities.
Anyway--I'm writing a letter to Kenny Price--owner of Samson exhaust. I'm just not sure if I'm getting my point across (j/k)--so I thought I'd have you proof it for me.


To:
Kenny Price
Samson Exhaust

Dear Kenny (you fat, hairy, greedy shitbag!),
Enclosed please find five dollars. Be sure to go buy yourself a clue. I thought you might like to hear some customer feedback. Today I ripped your busted-ass Long Slashers off my Harley. Here’s a one or two reasons why:
1) Pipes: When properly aligned, they leak. Junk.
2) Baffles: Ever heard of backpressure? How ‘bout torque? Junk.
3) Heat Shields: They don’t line up for shit with factory heat shields. Junk.
4) Brackets: Could you have picked lower grade steel? Junk.
5) Pinch clamps: They don’t pinch. Junk.
6) Hardware: Junk.
7) Instructions. Useless.
So Kenny, you pretty much ****ed up everything. The only thing that I can figure is you just don’t give a flying ****. People spit blood to afford Harleys and you come along and scam them out of a little more money. I hope you’re happy stuffing that fat face of yours. What is that under your chin? A goiter? Considering Samson Exhaust’s shoddy engineering, craftsmanship, and materials selection, I doubt you have the integrity to refund my hard earned money. Then again—keep it. You’ll need it more than I do after I spread this letter all over the internet.

Go **** yourself,


Another Sucker
 

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streetfytr68 said:
I can't believe that I haven't found this place sooner. And it's not like I wasn't looking. I am completely blown away by the level of support and quality of information on this site. You guys rock!! A Lot! My wallet is cowering in fearfrom the possibilities.
Anyway--I'm writing a letter to Kenny Price--owner of Samson exhaust. I'm just not sure if I'm getting my point across (j/k)--so I thought I'd have you proof it for me.


To:
Kenny Price
Samson Exhaust

Dear Kenny (you fat, hairy, greedy shitbag!),
Enclosed please find five dollars. Be sure to go buy yourself a clue. I thought you might like to hear some customer feedback. Today I ripped your busted-ass Long Slashers off my Harley. Here’s a one or two reasons why:
1) Pipes: When properly aligned, they leak. Junk.
2) Baffles: Ever heard of backpressure? How ‘bout torque? Junk.
3) Heat Shields: They don’t line up for shit with factory heat shields. Junk.
4) Brackets: Could you have picked lower grade steel? Junk.
5) Pinch clamps: They don’t pinch. Junk.
6) Hardware: Junk.
7) Instructions. Useless.
So Kenny, you pretty much ****ed up everything. The only thing that I can figure is you just don’t give a flying ****. People spit blood to afford Harleys and you come along and scam them out of a little more money. I hope you’re happy stuffing that fat face of yours. What is that under your chin? A goiter? Considering Samson Exhaust’s shoddy engineering, craftsmanship, and materials selection, I doubt you have the integrity to refund my hard earned money. Then again—keep it. You’ll need it more than I do after I spread this letter all over the internet.

Go **** yourself,


Another Sucker
Sounds like these guy's did their apprenticeship in the same school as BUB.
Check out the thread titled '18hp power loss' in high performance.
Loadsa luck in getting your money back mate, I just got ignored. :soapbox:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Back2Stock

OKIE said:
What ya running now?
I have put the stock exhaust back on. I pulled the PCIIIr and left the K&N air cleaner intact. It's the first time in my life that I have ever put anything back to stock. I have been looking for good recommendations before buying new pipes--and here I am!
/Steevo
 

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Tired of the crap
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streetfytr68 said:
I'm writing a letter to Kenny Price--owner of Samson exhaust. I'm just not sure if I'm getting my point across
I'm not sure that writing a letter to Samson is going to get you anything, besides possibly venting some steam.

If you saw the Discovery Channel "Birth of the V-Rod", you will remember the amount of work that went into the design of the OEM exhaust system. The Revolution engine creates a number of challenges for the exhaust system designer: as a high-power engine it creates a lot of exhaust flow; as a 60 degree V-Twin with a unique firing order it creates that flow in staggered pulses; and as an electronically fuel-injected bike the amount of fuel, air, and spark is carefully tuned to a variety of operating variables. As an OEM, Harley has to make sure that the bike meets noise and emissions standards. An aftermarket supplier such as Samson can largely ignore the latter - but that does not mean they can blow-off (pardon the pun) the other factors when designing exhaust systems.

Samson (and other aftermarket exhaust makers) got rich on a very simple business model: carburetted, air-cooled, OEM V-Twins could gain an immediate performance boost by simply putting on a "freer flowing" exhaust system and air cleaner, and by tweaking the ignition timing. As a bonus owners also got a louder, "meaner" sounding bike.

Unfortunately for owners of the V-Rod, simply applying the above formula to their bikes has almost universally resulted in decreased performance - and in some cases it has actually damaged the engine. V-Rod owners currently have two viable exhaust options if they actually want to improve the performance (and/or sound) of their bikes: They can purchase the Harley SE package; or they can send their exhaust to have the V-Mod work done.

The best way the V-Rod community can communicate its displeasure with aftermarket suppliers (like Samson) that foist under-engineered products on us is by voting with our pocketbooks, and by sharing the experiences we have had with our bikes. Tell folks what works - and what doesn't.
 

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Are you looking for power, aestethics, sound ... or combination of all?

Not sure why you pulled the PCIIIr, you could have installed diff map for your stock pipes.
 

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steevo,
when I first got my v-rod it had Sampson's on it .I did a bike show in Vegas here and he was there,What an Arrogant Arshole he is! :wazzup: I tried to ask him some question and the way he talked Down to me was Very Frustrating! :alien: His Pipes are Junk and I've said that for last couple Years.Welcome to Our V-rod Gang/Family.Believe me we wouldn't have let you Bought them! ;)
 

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Hey Steve, don't hold back... tell him how you really feel ;)

Greg
 

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If you want to be taken seriously, you should re-write it in a professional manner. If you are simply looking to vent then it serves its purpose.

Personally, I think you will go further with a professional tone that has a call to action.

Leon
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Samson could care less about their customers. I have no chance of getting my money back. So this is Plan B: Vent my frustrations with public sarcasm and humor while simultaneously helping others steer clear of Samson Exhaust. Wow! I feel better already! :D
/Steevo

Edit: I'm looking for performance, aesthetics and quality. The Samsons were sorely lacking in all three departments. Actually it's as though the pipes were designed with some sort of a "screw-the-customer" checklist. I was truly amazed.
I bought the Samsons because their website had clear images of pipes installed on bikes as well as a clear sound file. It's still difficult to find V-Rods in person to get recommednations.
I pulled the PCIIIr because I figured that it won't do much good w/o pipes. If you tell me that I can download a K&N only file that will benefit my bike--I'm there!!
 

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Will Work For Mod $$
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samson pipes

I purchased an '02 with 1300 miles on it in March. The original owner had SE slip-ons, SE filter and the proper mapping for that set up completed when he purchased the bike new. He switched to the Samson Short Slashers for the sound prior to the 1000 check-up. While in for the check-up, there were no rich/lean problems found with the bike but it had lost some housepower. The H-D dealer, who did not appreciate the aftermarket pipes, said that the bike was running fine and if the horsepower was not an issue, it was the owners choice on exhaust.
I may tire of the loud pipes but unless someone can show me in black and white where I will harm my engine running the Samson, I will be keeping them on for at least this season. As far as the material, hardware and finish, the only problem I see is the leaking issue and I understand that it's not only with Samson pipes. The S clamp is the problem and from what I understand, it should be changed after loosening and tightening several times. I guess it looses it clamping strength after several cycles of loosening & tightening. The mounting brackets are for the most part hidden and appear to do their job.
Believe me, I'm new to V-Rodding and have a lot to learn. I am just giving my two sense to the Samson pipe issue(s). I may switch to the Rineharts next year but for now, the Samson's are staying on. ( Note: I'm probably the only person on the forum that really does not care about going fast. I bought the bike for cruising, so high speeds and high horsepower really does not matter to me. Taking care of the bike is my first priority, so like I stated before, if someone can show me I'm damaging the engine with the Samson pipes, they will be off tomorrow. Thanks for letting me speak my piece.
 

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backcracker
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Steevo, I agree with you on all fronts. I got the Ripsaws before I got into the forum and was told they were junk. They were on the bike for about 15 minutes and I had to get home and rip them off. Good luck with the letter and if you want you can add my name!!

Dan
 

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Steevo, if you go to www.powercommander.com you can go to the map list there for the vrod and I think you can find the map you are looking for. As for pipes that fit all 3 things you are looking for, you might want to check out www.v-mod.com they mod the HD factory pipes which improves sound and HP gains and there are PCIIIr maps that work for them. If you like something with a lot more HP look into either SuperTrapp 2-in-1 or the TurboTech 2-in-1.

just my .02
 

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spit happens
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Steevo there should be a map for stock pipes in the software for the PC.M809-001 is the map for stock pipes.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
vrodvinny said:
Steevo there should be a map for stock pipes in the software for the PC.M809-001 is the map for stock pipes.
Thanx everyone. Just downloaded the 001 file. At this point, I'm going to hold off on mods until I've put in some hardcore research here on the forum. Those TurboTec's are starting to look pretty sexy. I may just wait to see what Bassani comes up with.

MustangGT, I certainly mean no disrespect. Just having a good laugh at Kenny Price's expense.
 

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Riding the good life
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Steevo,

If you used a credit card for the purchase, contact your card company, and have the billing credited back. You'll have to support what you say in a letter to the card company to dispute the charge. Let them know what happened after installation, and what Sampsons claims are for their product performance. Advise that the prioduct does not live up to their claims.

Even if you'd bought these from a parts house or bike shop, it will fly back into sampsons face. The retailer will ask for a credit, or rather demand a credit from sampson. if they do not give the credit, it will be like a domino effect, as the biz owners talk to one another about what is up with their manufacturers.

Once you are certain the card company will work with you, put all the parts back into a/the box, and take them back to whomever you'd gotten them from. If they were shipped to you, ship them back, and oh yea, claim the freight expense BOTH ways. Be sure to use your card for that too. let sampson eat it.

If you go back to the retailer physically, give them a copy of your credit card company letter that you wrote, along with the credit card company credit to you. Any arguments from the retailer would be fruitless, as you've a legal representative in the card company. If they are arguementve, just drop the parts and walk out.

This techniques works well, becuase the next conversation that retailer has is with sampson in a pissed rage.

Any parts I buy, its on the card, and if the parts are not what I wanted or work the way they claim, I do not pay for them PERIOD.
 

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Hey steve.. don't sugar coat it next time!!!!!!

sorry about the issue with the pipes!!! I sold my SE slips on and went with V Mod stock pipes... they're just great.. that's my vote

greg
 

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Rich,

I don't know how often you've done what you say but you don't get your money back until the credit card company has completed their investigation. If the selling company can prove that the parts are as advertised and they have followed their stated policy for returns / refund (i.e. no refunds after installation, No returns without prior authorization, etc. etc.) and especially if you still have them in your possession you aren't going to get anything back from your credit card company.

You can only dispute the charge if the goods or services are not delivered or were substantially misrepresented AND they have been returned to the original seller. If it's a hard good then it must be returned to the seller and confirmed before the credit card company will refund your account. If it get's lost in transit and the seller can produce a receipt for shiping Oh Well, you're out again unless you purchased shipping insurance. If it's a service then that could lead to litigation because it's going to be their word against yours.

You can't dispute a charge simply because you don't like something and they won't take it back. Using your credit card affords you some additional protection but it's by no means as secure as you make it sound. In Streetfytr68's case he probably wouldn't have a chance of getting his money back on his pipes.

Follow this link for more detailed information on your rights when using a credit card for purchases. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/general/wrong.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks anyway

It's a good idea, thank you. But I'm afraid it's probably too late. It's been a few months. Anyway, it's only money. I've worked and played in the automotive aftermarket for many years. The junk manufacturers fall by the wayside. I'm happy just discrediting Samson Exhaust here at the center of the V-Rod universe. :moon: I just thought you guys might get a good laugh out of the letter. Actually I may as well let this thread fester for a few more days and then I'll send a link to Samson (and Hot Bike and American Iron and Easyriders and V-Mod.com and all of Samson's competitors. There is a certain natural order to the free marketplace. If you sell parts that kill power and then fall off the motorcycle, it will come back and bite you in your fat unwashed ass. Isn't the internet great?

Now, anyone who comes here and searches Samson will no doubt stumble onto this thread. This thread will cost Samson exhaust a lot more than 300-something dollars. Doesn't matter--Price will just tell himself that those V-Rod customers don't spend money or don't know how to turn a wrench.
/Steevo
 
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