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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Joe,

I have the '07 and newer Harley Run-Stop module installed so I can use the turn signals as running / brake lights.

I wired up my V light on my '08 (had to splice it in since the wires aren't long enough) and when I turned it on the turn signals went to full bright with or without applying the brakes. The light itself worked fine, a V when running and full bright with brakes. I put the stock light back in and it works fine.

Sounds like the module is looking for a load, Any ideas?
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
it shouldn't be looking for a load.... last one I looked at (hd module), the signal for run and brake passed straight through.

Stage 1 or 2 taillight?
 

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Friend of Max.
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21,719 Posts
Mark,

Are you running a Stage II?

Have you tried running the module between the harness and brake light for the brake function, and for the turn signal portion, run them through the tail light (stage II) then to the Run/Stop Module, then to the outboard turn signals? That way the module will see the load from the Turn signals as if it were normal. Does this make sense?
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Joe,

It's a stage 1 "V" light. Perhaps I miss wired something considering I spliced it but the light worked as it should with the V then full bright with the brake. The older module was electro mechanical with a relay, this new module is switched electrically. Let me run out and check something, I'll unplug the tail light and see if the turns go full bright.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, here's the scoop. With the stock light disconnected (or the bulb removed) the turn signals go full bright. I also tried removing the bulb after the lights come on so the turns were dim. They stayed dim until you hit the brakes then they stay bright. It looks like the switching transistor uses the brake light as part of the bias circuit. Without the bulb and the associated resistance the transistor won't switch.

Now, to see what value resistor I need to wire in and on which circuit? Perhaps only one on the ground would suffice?

Oh and RJ, I'm not ignoring your comment, I just don't think it will work since the module needs to be wired in front of the brake light.
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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what are the chances of getting you to send the setup to me so I can have a look at it?
 

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Friend of Max.
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mjw930 said:
Ok, here's the scoop. With the stock light disconnected (or the bulb removed) the turn signals go full bright. I also tried removing the bulb after the lights come on so the turns were dim. They stayed dim until you hit the brakes then they stay bright. It looks like the switching transistor uses the brake light as part of the bias circuit. Without the bulb and the associated resistance the transistor won't switch.

Now, to see what value resistor I need to wire in and on which circuit? Perhaps only one on the ground would suffice?
That doesn't sound right. I am using a newer model moduel with a stage II and haven't run into this issue.
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
thinking about this some more... something has to be wrong... if your taillight bulb burns out the signals will stay on full bright... that would be pretty f'd up.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They changed the module on '07 for the new wiring. I had both the original and the updated version of this on my '03 and it worked fine, it's just the '08 with the '07 - up specific module that it's acting up. I'll look tomorrow to see if I can find the instructions, that may shed some light on this ;)
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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AFAIK, the "new '07 module" is the same module as the updated one, just with the connectors for the '07-up turn signal connector.

Did you maybe miss a ground wire or something?
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
One more thing, it's possible that they only go full bright if the running portion of the tail light burns out. I've heard of other systems that did this. My BMW would turn on the turn signals if the rear running light burnt out.

Since I spliced into the wires I can remove them individually. I'll see which circuit causes the problem.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
DrHeathenScum said:
AFAIK, the "new '07 module" is the same module as the updated one, just with the connectors for the '07-up turn signal connector.

Did you maybe miss a ground wire or something?
There's nothing to ground, It's 2 plugs, one for the tail light and one for the turn signals (both run into one connector now).
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
there should be a 6-position connector for the signals and plate light, and then a 4-position (only 3 are used) for the taillight... post some pics.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Correct, there are 4 connections. The major difference is on the newer bikes the turn signals and license place light share one connector vs. the older system where each had it's own. I could post some pictures but there's not much to see other than 4 black connectors.

I double checked the connections and they are fine.

Here are the tests I performed:

1. Remove lead for tail light - no effect, everything works except the tail light
2. Remove the lead for the brake light - turn signals go full bright when brake is applied and stay on full bright until you re-connect the brake light
3. Removed the module and did the same tests - turn signals never illuminate (except when used as turn signals)

It seems that they use the brake lamp resistance as part of the circuit. I imagine a 3-ohm resister between brake signal and ground would have the effect of simulating an incandescent filament but I'm concerned about the heat buildup.
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
More notes:

First, this bike does not have security, that may make a difference since both my older bike and RJ's do.

Second, I measured the resistance of the stock light. The run lamp is 2.9 ohms, the stop lamp is 1.1 ohms. I installed a cheap 33 ohm resistor (it's all I had in my junk box) and it cleared the problem but being a cheap, low watt resister with more than 30 times the resistance needed it will burn up in less than 5 seconds of brake light operation.

Now the issue of what resister to use or if there are any solid state solutions that won't generate heat. I'm thinking a 1-Ohm 10W wire wound resister from Radio Shack might do the trick but I'll have to get some and test them for heat dissipation.

Joe, any suggestions?
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
go the opposite way... try a 1k ohm resistor across brake and ground and see if that works. A 1k will not get hot... a 1 ohm, even 10w, will get hot enough to cook a H-D hotdog on.

I still think you have a bad module.

The H-D LED lamp has a resistance way up in the meg ohm range, same as the HC light.

The BMW system will light the brake light filament at low power if it senses the running light out and will also warn you on the dash if either filament is out... I have never heard of it lighting the signals up. Their system is part of their EVO (integrated) ABS system.

I also still wouldn't mind if you send me that module to look at... though I think it's defective.

If for some reason it is supposed to work that way, I would be very surprised... can we get a technical call on this from anyone "in the know"?
 

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SNAFU
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13,094 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Joe,

H-D technical support says they have nothing directly on this BUT, they have reports from other bike models that the new R/T/B modules and LED tail lights are a problem. They didn't have any insight into the inner workings of the module but having additional reports of issues make me think it's not a defective module but something in the new wiring that took a marginal situation and made it a problem.

I'll get a 1K ohm 1Watt resister today when I go out and report back on the fix. I'm going to leave the brake on for 5 - 10 minutes to make sure the resistor doesn't heat up. 13.5 volts through 1K ohms is only 180 mW or about 13 mA amps so it shouldn't get very warm.
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
Wow, that's prett f'd up... release a module for the brake lights that is not compatible with LED taillights, that you sell... nice going H-D.

A 1k resistor shouldn't heat up at all.

Looks like I have to go buy a new H-D module and take it apart... sigh.
 

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Registered
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25 Posts
I went to my local dealer and they had to order a brake, stop, turn signal running light kit and was told a week later that HD has re-designed a new module for '07 to accomodate newer harness............. also it is suppose to be smaller to make it easier to hide it on the "V". They are not sure on delivery.......... anyone hear of this????
 

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The Heavycycles Guy
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6,785 Posts
incidentally... the connectors on the '07-up are the same make/series as the old connectors, so you could swap the connector bodies on an older module to fit the new bike.... same terminals used in all of them.
 
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