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Riding the good life
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know what the microns of the V-Rod oil filter material is?

After having the oil analylized by AMSOIL, and talking with the dealer who sold me the oil, he is adviseng that a filter that has 16 microns or less is the best to filter materials.

The test results called for zero action to be taken at this time, and that means after 5,000 miles, not even a filter change. However, I was cautioned to find out the micron size of the filtering material, as if the microns are larger than the 16 micron, such as standard for automotive at 60 micron, a more frequent oil filter change would be required.
 

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speeding safely
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10 micron

According to Harley:

Genuine Harley-Davidson® Oil Filters
Harley-Davidson is taking lead in the industry with this breakthrough filter. It uses a synthetic media that provides nominal 10 micron filtration with increased retained capacity for dust, soot and other solid matter. Low internal pressure drop Integral Pressure Relief Valve, Integral Anti-Drain Back Valve. Available in chrome or black, this is the best filtration available and will retrofit to most earlier models.


Interesting that the MoCo has an MSRP on them of $8.60 and my stealer charged me $10.25!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
morey000 said:
According to Harley:

Genuine Harley-Davidson® Oil Filters
Harley-Davidson is taking lead in the industry with this breakthrough filter. It uses a synthetic media that provides nominal 10 micron filtration with increased retained capacity for dust, soot and other solid matter. Low internal pressure drop Integral Pressure Relief Valve, Integral Anti-Drain Back Valve. Available in chrome or black, this is the best filtration available and will retrofit to most earlier models.


Interesting that the MoCo has an MSRP on them of $8.60 and my stealer charged me $10.25!
Yea, the extra pricing on what you buy is called "value added..", and it adds to the dealers bottom line value, not their customers. :tmbsdow: :tmbsdow:


Thanks for posting this. Another reason to go to synthetics, have the tests done, and then to find you can get away from doing more oil changes than necessary. I just bought a filter thinking i'd do the right thing. Now knowing that their filters are 10 micron, the right thing to do is continue test intervals on the synthetic at 3000 to 4000 mile intervals. :thumb: :thumb:
 

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Autobanmod
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Rich Moran said:
The test results called for zero action to be taken at this time, and that means after 5,000 miles, not even a filter change. However, I was cautioned to find out the micron size of the filtering material, as if the microns are larger than the 16 micron, such as standard for automotive at 60 micron, a more frequent oil filter change would be required.
It is the other way around my friend! The finer you filtrate your oil, the more deposits you collect in the filter (thus futhermore reducing the effective mesh size because the particles are suck in the holes) and the sooner you will have to change the filter!
The advantage of fine filteration is an extended oil service time. Or the other way around: the coarser your filter the sooner you have to change your oil but the service time of the filter increases.
p.s. you normally don't change the oil filter because of oil analysis results but because you want to avoid oil pressure drops in the system.

Jan
 

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This whole oil analysis thing seems kind of backwards to me. Sort of like having a dental exam to tell you when its time to brush your teeth (OK - so I'm exaggerating a bit..)

Why not just change your oil and filter every 1500-2500 miles or so? For most people here that means two or three oil changes per season - hardly a huge burden of either time or money. I've got enough things to worry about, without fretting over the levels of various minerals in my drain oil. You "oil analysis" junkies better tell me you send your blood and urine off for regular tests too - because if you don't then you've got some strange priorities going on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Jan-Dirk said:
It is the other way around my friend! The finer you filtrate your oil, the more deposits you collect in the filter (thus futhermore reducing the effective mesh size because the particles are suck in the holes) and the sooner you will have to change the filter!
The advantage of fine filteration is an extended oil service time. Or the other way around: the coarser your filter the sooner you have to change your oil but the service time of the filter increases.
p.s. you normally don't change the oil filter because of oil analysis results but because you want to avoid oil pressure drops in the system.

Jan
Jan, so what is the suggestion that you think the filter should be changed at? Normal service interval? I was advised by the AMSOIL dealer that the reason you could extend the use of the filter is because synthetics will not devlop sludge. From what they are saying no sludge, less contaminents in the oil,, thus less restriction in the motor and filter due to no sludge build up.

Basically, what I see from the report is that the filter is now stopping "hard" contaminents,such as iron, lead, copper, & aluminum. Those according to the report only show the aluminum at 12 parts per million. That is not much, and everything else is much lower than that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
vroddrew said:
This whole oil analysis thing seems kind of backwards to me. Sort of like having a dental exam to tell you when its time to brush your teeth (OK - so I'm exaggerating a bit..)

Why not just change your oil and filter every 1500-2500 miles or so? For most people here that means two or three oil changes per season - hardly a huge burden of either time or money. I've got enough things to worry about, without fretting over the levels of various minerals in my drain oil. You "oil analysis" junkies better tell me you send your blood and urine off for regular tests too - because if you don't then you've got some strange priorities going on.
vroddrew, I thought the same way when I was running the dinosaur stuff. It makes sense if you are running that type of oil, as you must change it more than with synthetics.

I am not trying to sell you or anyone else on the use of synthetics, but, my riding season is year-round, and I run in tropical temperatures. The hot summer months see the temps above 85 and much of the time at 90+. The benefit is the motor runs cooler with the synthetics by as much as 10 to 20 degrees. In my Sportster it ran 25 degrees cooler, which means added motor life.

It is less of a burden to send the samples out, than running to the dealer or buying a number of filters, buying a case of oil, and then spending the time changing the oil that frequent.

I use a small tube used for the refer for making ice cubes. Insert it into the fill/dipstick hole, when the motor is hot, and siphon out 3 or 4 OZ. Send it out, a week later the report tells you what is up in the motor.

My previous post explained lightly about metal content. When the metal content goes out of wack, there could be problems internally with the motor that might not be apparent when running the motor. It is a forward warning that lets you know in advance of a bigger problem waiting to happen.

And by the way, after cat scans of my heart and blood vessles and brain, no problem was found either. At 54, your priorities do tend to change, and if my personal oil content starts screwing up, I want to know well in advance before major damage occurs. At least I can hand the V-Rod keys to my son, and tell him I love him before I go, if it turned out that bad. I better say something about the wife and daughter too while I am at it. Honey, you get the bills, and my daughter, she can get the Sportster.

Okay, lighten up a bit!!

Maybe to put it into another lite, it is like a game, you see. If you can get away with doing things so frequently, like oil, filters, hot stuff on the skin, disposal etc, that is one reason. The motor health is the other. The gas tidbit that has been much discussed, where injectors might be leaking down can be bad news for your motor, and if these tests come out clean, no sweat. If not, there is a problem. With my motor out of warranty, the tests are not a pain to me.
 

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Autobanmod
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Rich Moran said:
Jan, so what is the suggestion that you think the filter should be changed at? Normal service interval? I was advised by the AMSOIL dealer that the reason you could extend the use of the filter is because synthetics will not devlop sludge. From what they are saying no sludge, less contaminents in the oil,, thus less restriction in the motor and filter due to no sludge build up.
I would recommend the normal service interval, to keep on the safe side, in this respect I principally agree to vroddrew.
On the other hand and as you stated yourself already: the oil test tells you if something is wrong before you have the breakdown and gives you time for counteractions.
When you do the oil change make sure that you always drain it through the stock oil drain and don't use the hose / dipstick method.
p.s. my blood is checked on a regular basis too...
 

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2 or 3 OIL Changes a season...... If I wasted my $ at the same intervals you do (1500-2500 miles) I would be doing almost 10-12 oil changes a year. The manual even says 5k miles. Us Oil analysis junkies :thumb: want o better understand the wear patten of a brand new product 1st. Then back off of the analysis and intervals to what the bike NEEDS rather then what the MoCo or other part time riders think.



vroddrew said:
This whole oil analysis thing seems kind of backwards to me. Sort of like having a dental exam to tell you when its time to brush your teeth (OK - so I'm exaggerating a bit..)

Why not just change your oil and filter every 1500-2500 miles or so? For most people here that means two or three oil changes per season - hardly a huge burden of either time or money. I've got enough things to worry about, without fretting over the levels of various minerals in my drain oil. You "oil analysis" junkies better tell me you send your blood and urine off for regular tests too - because if you don't then you've got some strange priorities going on.
 

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1500-2500 mile synth oil changes??? Cripes, Ill pay for the shipping if you'll mail it to me. Then I can put it in mine. I really dont think your going to see any difference over 50-100 K miles as one who changes the oil every 5000 miles. Especialy with synth. Its just a motor guys.
But thats just me...
 

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Strange, though - for some reason my drain oil never smells like gasoline. Never has - and I doubt it ever will.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Jan wrote "When you do the oil change make sure that you always drain it through the stock oil drain and don't use the hose / dipstick method." UNQUOTE

The tube system is for samples only. Yes, I probablly miss some of the metals, as they would probablly settle a bit quicker, than draining through the oil-drain plug area. But the samples are pulled from a hot motor. My office has me at the Army Corrosion Control Center, where sampling of the synthetics they use from the Army tactical equipment is pulled quite regularly. i have seen them do it the same way, only to pull the sample from the dipstick tube where the dipstick is pushed through to the oil pan.

In the inboard marine business, the only way to change oil with those powerplants is by using a hose through the dipstick hole too. I would imagine that if one were persistant enough, the hole for the V-Rod dipstick could be used as an exit area with the pump method too if desired. However, if one were to do that, I would recommend that the first time it is done, to pull the drain plug after the inital drain through the dip stick hole, to see what is left, if anything at all.

Then the other chore is then to slice open the filter after it has cooled to insure nothing in the way of metal is found if there is a suspect motor problem.

Is there anyway to check the density of the filtration material to discover if more miles could have been had from the filter? Would a oil filter pressure gauge register problems if you were to try to run the filter for additional miles? So far I am at the 5K mark, and I have a new filter to install. But, what would happen if you did an extra 2 or 3K on the filter? If the synoil is really clean to the eye, and the reports come back with no required action, is the filter change really necessary?

I know that being outside the manufacturer spec for the motor is enough conclusive information for some to take action, but reality of the report statement stating no action required is enough for me to go more miles. Talking with the AMSOIL guy about it, he stated to go an additional 2,500 miles, do the analysis again, and see how the report comes back. He rides a water cooled ricer, and advised he has gone 3 years between oil changes, and does filters almost in the same time frame. He based his decision on this habit from the reports he's recieved from his sprint car, several Corvettes, and the bike he rides.

It almost runs counter good habits for timely maintenence of machinery, but the reports stand testimony to his actions.

The question about the AMSOIL filter, I was under the impression that they are not available. Could be wrong, as I have been wrong in the past and no doubt will be in the future too.

When i was changing the AMSOIL prior to the analysis, I was using the drained oil from my Sportster and V-Rod for my 92 GMC Safari. That motor has 175,000 miles on it, and is still going strong. It burns oil due to the fact of leaking valve guide seals, so instead of throwing what I believed to be good synoil out, it was being reused.

The analysis advised properly my guess on the V-Rod. The Sportster has gone almost 2 years now with no change, but only topping off. The oil looks clean yet, & no gas smell there either.

No doubt I am sold on this stuff, as from what I have gotten performance wise is well worth the $ invested.
 

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Autobanmod
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Sampling through the dipstick bore is no problem, I fully agree (as long as the oil is warm).
Just meant the method for changing the oil.
p.s.
consider that the Vrod has combined engine and gear case lubrication - more risk of friction contamination and higher mechanical aging of the oil
 
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